Lubrisizer for paperpatch bullet?

[moose0011]

Just learning about the whole casting operation and have discovered paperpatching which excites me more than just casting just by itself. I have been reading thread after thread and I am reading after your paper has dried onto your bullet you need to size it? Ok and some have commented they do it through a push through sizer I am guessing like a lee? Can you use a a lyman or RCBS Lubrisizer just minus the Lube?

[moose0011]

Ok so I see 31 people have stopped and checked this out... maybe I am asking a dumb question since no one wants to help me here. can someone give me a link please that could guide me in the right direction...

[wallenba]

A lot of our real knowledgeable paper patchers are from down under. Give it a while, and they should get around to it.

[.22-10-45]

Hello, moose0011..and welcome to the site! Few years back, I spent 1 1/2 shooting seasons shooting nothing but paper-patched bullets thru a .22 Hornet & .222 Rem. I tried just about everything you could think of in the way of experimentation. I have sized patched bullets thru nose-first reloading press type sizer dies (Corbin) , as well as base first thru Lyman 45. Patch takes on a sheen & forces lube into paper. by using various I.D. sizers, you can change dia. of slug under paper.

[Nobade]

For sizing the core, and for final sizing I use Lee type push through sizers. But I did learn a trick from Geargnasher here and use a lubrisizer with the heat turned up and a die .001 - .002 bigger than the patched boolit to put a little lube on it. That does work well. Otherwise, lubrisizers and patched boolits don't have any need to be associated with each other.

-Nobade

[pdawg_shooter]

A "dry" lubesizer will work, but I much prefer a push through die. The lead in taper on a push through die can be way longer than a lubesizer die. Second, I have distorted (read bent) long skinny rifle bullets sizeing base first. Might work ok for short fat handgun bullets, but why would you need to patch for a handgun. A "naked" lubed bullet works fine in a handgun. OK, maybe for patching up .452 handgun bullets for use in a 45-70 or .458.

[bigted]

and as to the 31 people ... they most probably were folks just like yourself that were looking for an answer to the question themselves. you have to understand that there is a net full of folks that wonder thru here looking for a home to roost at where the info is flowing like it does here. also we have a whole bunch of folks here that are mostly on other areas of this forum and they wonder thru looking to see what's new in areas they rarely visit ... kinda like this one.

no worries friend ... there are tons of fellers that will chime in on just about every subject you want to bring up. just need to wait for them to either get off work, get home from shooting, get back to the computer, ect ect.

I will chime in as above. I also use the pushthru dies ...[as in Lee]... to do my patch sizing and reducing. I use my Lyman sizer to put lube on my greasers and size down no more then .002 inch.

jump in and give it a try. report back with your success and questions as they arrive. and welcome to the addiction that keeps going n going.

[Hardcast416taylor]

A machinest friend of mine made my push thru custom sizers. I also use some of the LEE push thru sizers when I`m not critical of the particular size for my rifles. I put a small dab of JPW around the paper before starting them up into the die. I do not put any further lube on the jacket after it is sized. There are many much more knowledgeable metal workers on this site that can make push thru sizers for a reasonable price provided they are furnished with the final diameter you are hoping for.Robert

[andrew375]

I have passed my pp bullets through my lubrisizer. I either prelube the bullets by rolling them over a sheet of lube (50/50 vaseline/beeswax) or simply let the lubrisizer apply the lube in the usual way. I haven't noticed a difference either way.

[moose0011]

I will be doing it for my 458 win mag to start. I figure a stout bullet is easier to learn on that persay my 22 hornet or so on and so forth. or my 6.5's them long skinny things. I am quite fond of the whole Idea of paper patching an almost pure lead that is really soft. I figure that is the true expanding bullet with some drive to it . I figure if I can do it with my 458 and make it the size of a silver dollar when exiting I should have my alloy about right. then to play with probably my 06, As far as the push through die you guys are all speaking of like the lee sizer. I saw one person mention it? I guess I would be afraid it would tare the paper off. and I don't know how that will work with my presses.. I have to forester coaxials. and a hornady ammo plant. I guess I can dig up my old lee single stage I started with.

Lets say I mic my bore to be .4578... I should size a slug to .451? and roll it with paper up to .460? correct.. should I start with a 45-70 mold of .460 to size down.(thats what I prefer) or would I be better off to use a 444 marlin mold of .452. and would You use the lubrisizer on a .458 to take it down to a .451 in one go? Can I let the lube flow out into the groves or no? I look forward to hearing from you.. and sorry about the beginning I saw people getting on and off and writing nothing. on another thread I started I had almost a full page in like 20 min so I was confused why no one wanted to share anything with me.

[pdawg_shooter]

[QUOTE=bigted;2634721

I will chime in as above. I also use the pushthru dies ...[as in Lee]... to do my patch sizing and reducing. I use my Lyman sizer to put lube on my greasers and size down no more then .002 inch.

I size .313s down to .3015 with a single pas through my push through die. Cant do that base first.

[bigted]

id say this for grins ... take your measurements and treat them thusely;

bore of lets say .450 and a groove diameter of .458. just as in my ruger #1

I take a bare boolit and either cast it or size it thru a pushthru die to .452 first thing ... that is .002 over the bore diameter.

next I wet wrap these boolits up to .460 or .461 inch after being dryed over night ... next I run em after smearing some case sizing wax on em thru my .460 inch die.

now I take these lubed/waxed boolits of the .460 inch diameter and load em over my load of powder and straighten up the swell of the flair on the case mouth. I load em over 100 % load column. now I shoot the crud outta stuff.

try that first off ... and maybe if you are a reader ... maybe get the books on the subject from Mathews or Write. they will steer you in the rite direction to begin with and not have to take a mortgage out on the house to do it.

you are in the rite place and if nothing else ... just keep reading all the posts new and old as there are copious amounts of good info here.

[bearcove]

458 WM is not an easy start. The throat and freebore make it challenging

[moose0011]

id say this for grins ... take your measurements and treat them thusely;

bore of lets say .450 and a groove diameter of .458. just as in my ruger #1

I take a bare boolit and either cast it or size it thru a pushthru die to .452 first thing ... that is .002 over the bore diameter.

next I wet wrap these boolits up to .460 or .461 inch after being dryed over night ... next I run em after smearing some case sizing wax on em thru my .460 inch die.

now I take these lubed/waxed boolits of the .460 inch diameter and load em over my load of powder and straighten up the swell of the flair on the case mouth. I load em over 100 % load column. now I shoot the crud outta stuff.

try that first off ... and maybe if you are a reader ... maybe get the books on the subject from Mathews or Write. they will steer you in the rite direction to begin with and not have to take a mortgage out on the house to do it.

you are in the rite place and if nothing else ... just keep reading all the posts new and old as there are copious amounts of good info here.

You said you take your bare boolit and push it through a die and size it to .452. Ok you didn't say anything about lube on the bullet.. I thought you had to make sure there was lube on it? if you do what do you use..

you said you smear case sizing wax.. like imperial?

and since we both like the 458 win mag.. what is the molds or mold you like.... and powders..

[charlie / sw mo]

while i cant help moose0011 with his problem---iv been wondering where all the 458 win mag brass has gone ? iv got an 1917 enfield in 458 and cant find any brass for it

[moose0011]

honestly I have only bought 1 20 pack of brass I have a hundred or so pieces though that was given to me from a friend when he sold his.

[geargnasher]

Just learning about the whole casting operation and have discovered paperpatching which excites me more than just casting just by itself. I have been reading thread after thread and I am reading after your paper has dried onto your bullet you need to size it? Ok and some have commented they do it through a push through sizer I am guessing like a lee? Can you use a a lyman or RCBS Lubrisizer just minus the Lube?

You may or may not "need" to size the final patched boolit slightly. Paper selection, groove/bore relationship, and actual core size used determine that. Some people, well, one in particular here, swear that sizing the patch detracts slightly from accuracy but I haven't proven it to be so just yet. As Nobade outlined I tend to use a base-first, lube-sizer machine with a die that allows for lubing the patch under pressure. This also lets you compact and square the patch folds or twist. Put a high-wattage light bulb near your sizer for a while so the lube is nice and thin and just puts a haze on the patch. You can size the patch this way too if needed, there is no more danger of bending a boolit than when sizing normal, grease-groove boolits provided your machine is properly aligned and you don't size down too much. If you're having to size your patch down more than .001", select a thinner paper.

BTW, read the stickies in this section, all this is covered and then some without having to dig through a zillion posts unlike with some subjects here.

Gear

[goofyoldfart]

Oh boy, Moose your in serious trouble now with this ppb stuff . This stuff is seriously contagious. you are hooked for sure. I find that a lee push through sizer works the best for me. just take a finger smear of JPW or Tre-wax (light and slight) and wipe it on the patch then size. slides slick. Best of luck, brother. God Bless to you and yours.

GOOFY

ETA: all the above advice is dead on target. try using it and you should be okay. would love to hear how it goes.

[bigted]

You said you take your bare boolit and push it through a die and size it to .452. Ok you didn't say anything about lube on the bullet.. I thought you had to make sure there was lube on it? if you do what do you use..

you said you smear case sizing wax.. like imperial?

I NEVER use any kinda grease on my bare boolits when sizing before patching. the reason is that I want the bare boolit to have NOTHING on it that the paper would adhere to and maybe have some or all the paper mess my accuracy after it leaves the barrel. I want to ensure the paper ... all the paper ... shucks off the boolit after it leaves the barrel.

yes the imperial wax would work just fine to put on the OUTSIDE of the patched boolit. some of the only reason I push my patched boolits thru the die is to iron on the wax in an even and tight fashion. as stated above ... some patched boolits have no need for sizing ... so with these boolits the only reason to push them thru is to iron the wax on and smear it even on the whole patch.

as to what boolits I use in my 458 ... I have an adjustable mold from wild west that is a cup base boolit and it adjusts from around 350 grain to 650 grain. it is also a slick paperpatch mold with no grease grooves. it throws boolits in the .452 inch diameter. this works very well in my Ruger 458 with the very long throat. I adjust the mold to throw the long 650 grain boolits so I can load em out far enough to slightly engrave the patch which is over the ogive of the nose beginning. the only thing is to make em short enough to work thru my action. I love shooting blackpowder thru it with a bit shorter boolits and I also like IMR4350 and IMR3031 in it. RL-7 does well in it for a bit slower loads ... you can believe it that the 650 grainers can and do have the capability to get your attention upon yankin the trigger.



and since we both like the 458 win mag.. what is the molds or mold you like.... and powders..

guess I messed that up but I aint gonna retype it all so I will do it this way.

[s mac]

Moose, from what I have read here, and my own limited experiance, you don't really want lube under the patch, the patch will stick, won't shed after it leaves the muzzle. Maybe a little case lube to ease sizing, then wipe before patching. Also, 444marlin is .429-.431 so I don't think you want that size mold.