Field loading c&b revolvers???

[Uncle R.]

There's a letter to the editor of the current "Muzzleblasts" (NMLRA) by Marty Murphy, past president of that organization and a BP revolver competitor about chain fires. To wit, they begin at the rear of the cylinder because of a poor percussion cap to nipple fit, not at the front. The Bevel Brothers researched this as well and devoted most, if not all of their monthly column to it. Grease 'em if you wish, as it serves a purpose, but it DOESN'T prevent chain fires.

I've seen / read references to this theory (?) before. I can't say it isn't true, but it seems quite a coincidence to me that I've NEVER had a multiple discharge with the chambers greased and the only multiple discharge I ever experienced was on the third (and last) cylinder full that I fired without grease or lube. This out of hundreds and hundreds of loadings in that same gun - 99.9% of them greased or lubed with beeswax.
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That goes beyond coincidence, and I remain convinced that it was because of those bare balls. (They were also none too tight of a fit in the chambers I might add - although they did manage to stay in place under recoil.)
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Of course that doesn't mean that loose caps can't cause chain fires too - just that it's never happened to me.
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Uncle R.

[cwheel]

Used to have a old Italian 36 cap and ball. Nipples didn't all fit the caps tight, but it did fire. Used to load like most, powder, ball, lube, and then cap the nipples. I noticed at one point that some of the powder passed through the nipples while loading, didn't pay attention. The cross fire was 3 holes, one under the barrel and one to each side, shaved some lead, but I was OK. Last time I fired that one. When I got my ROA, I started capping first to prevent powder leaks, charged powder, wad, then the ball. Most folks will seat the cap last, but after the chain fire, I always cap first. Safety note, stay to the side of the front of the revolver cylinder when loading this way. Back face of the ROA is now always clear of loose powder, think it's a good place to start preventing chain fires, caps fit the nipples tight as well. If you are challenged enough to not be able to keep your face and other body parts away from the front of the cylinder while loading, don't use this method.
Chris

[Outpost75]

There's a letter to the editor of the current "Muzzleblasts" (NMLRA) by Marty Murphy, past president of that organization and a BP revolver competitor about chain fires. To wit, they begin at the rear of the cylinder because of a poor percussion cap to nipple fit, not at the front. The Bevel Brothers researched this as well and devoted most, if not all of their monthly column to it. Grease 'em if you wish, as it serves a purpose, but it DOESN'T prevent chain fires.

Agree, loose caps and worn nipples with excessively large openings are the usual cause. Grease is only to keep the fouling soft so that the cylinder doesn't bind up

[dondiego]

Well, the ONLY time I ever had a chain fire was when I decided to not bother with putting grease over the balls. It might have started at the nipples, but it sure is a coincidence that it only happened when I didn't grease the cylinder. I'm cured. Sure seems like I would have had a chain fire after that incident with the same caps and balls if it was related only to the caps and nipples.

[waksupi]

Same here, the only chain fires I ever had, was when I didn't grease the cylinders.

[FLINTNFIRE]

When I was a teen I experimented with no lube over cylinders , only chain fires I had were without lube . I always pinched my caps down to keep them on the 58 remington , No chain fires since then with lube over balls , to each their own.

[Maven]

Well, I suppose substandard diameter ball, i.e., one that doesn't shave a ring of Pb and no grease over the cylinder mouths may contribute to chain firing. Add to that sloppy charging so that there's loose powder at the front of the cylinder and you've got a recipe for unintended multiple discharges (but I'm still betting on the cap-nipple relationship as the more likely cause). These days I rarely grease the cylinder mouths, but use a tight fitting ball + a lubed felt wad and have never had a problem. In short, I cast my vote for the Bevel Bros. controlled experiment rather than anecdotal reports. The nice thing about the scientific method is that it invites skeptics to try a proposition for themselves, i.e., it invites replication. I'm sure the NMLRA can tell you which issue of "Muzzleblasts" contained their article if you'd care to try this for yourself.

[dondiego]

Your lubed felt wad being the key. I have worked in the scientific field for over 32 years in a test laboratory and have seen many so called controlled experiments produce invalid results. I will be using a wad or grease over the ball.

[waksupi]

I never loaded a C&B that didn't shave a lead ring when loaded.

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

If you have only one crossover/flashover when firing a cap & ball revolver, you will forever afterwards put grease on the cylinder mouths. That's the VOE talkin!

What he said.

i used to carry my grease (straight out of a tube for a grease gun - it doesn't melt like Crisco) in a tin that percussion caps came in. I had used a torch to burn the paint off, and it looks a little more vintage.

[Bardo]

Here is what I use. I usually take 5 tubes with 6 conicals or round balls in them. If I use round balls I put 6 wads in the tube so they are the first to come out. The flask hold at least enough powder for 30 shots. I also have a small spray bottle of Moose Milk I sometimes take to free up the cylinder.

Bardo

[HARRYMPOPE]

I agree with Maven on chain fires happening from the back.With a ball being shaved to fit powder just cant get in there.

[FLINTNFIRE]

All my cap and balls shave lead when loading , have not had a chain fire in over 30 years now since lubing over ball , only tried it without lube when a teenager to see if it would , load yours how you want , I will load mine the way I do . Every one does things their own way , what works for one may not be the way another likes to do it.

[histed]

FWIW, I've seen fellas take something like ZigZag cigarette papers, roll them around a former, put powder in one end, then a wonder wad or some such, then a ball. The powder end is folded over and these are carried in a cartridge box. I never tried it my self - I shot mostly .44s - but it seemed to work well with .32s and .36s. Idea was to push the entire "cartridge" into the cylinder, seat the ball, then run a pick through the nipple vent to expose the powder before capping.Personally, I'd worry about sparks and embers being left in the chambers, but these guys claimed it was the same as the old style nitrated paper cartridges. Uh, OK...?? Just sayin'

[scattershot]

"Do any of you fellas use punched card wads over the powder? The spongy pressed paper used for egg cartons is what I regularly use for over powder wads in muzzleloaders. The wads will soak up quite a bit of melted lube and serve well in rifles. I haven't done any definitive testing with them in percussion revolvers but it's on that big ol' list of round tuits. "



Sounds like a great idea to me, thanks for the tip.

[Omnivore]

Histed;

I've used paper cartridges made using cigarette papers, and also just "powder bags" (no lead) made from the same. I fold the paper over in back, and no punching of the paper has ever been necessary for reliable ignition. For one thing, as the lead is jammed down on top of it, the paper splits open and for another, the cap is more tham powerful enough to punch through a couple layers of the thin paper.

For field loading either one (power only, or full cartridge with lead and powder) is extremely convenient. Some of my revolvers don't take a full cartridge very well and so the powder-only version is still nice. The downsides are in the time it takes beforehand to make them up, and the fact that they are pretty fragile.

As for embers; well you have to be somewhat concerned about that regardless of how you load. Zig-Zag regular papers are slow burning compared to some of the others, and I do see more bits of paper left behind when using those. I've tried nitrating the paper usaing saltpeter and water, then letting the paper dry, but it doesn't seem to make much difference one way or the other. Maybe I just don't know what I'm doing.

[histed]

Looks like you're pretty up on it to me. I never tried it, but, since I know it works, this goes in the back of my mind for the next one - hopefully this summer. I thought I read somewhere that this was quite common in the Golden Age of the west. You're right about embers. Just mix saltpeter in water, huh? Any special proportion? Want to try sniping groundhogs with a .36 and this could be very useful

[Mike 56]

These are the paper carts i shoot in my 1858 Remington they load really easy. I have not tried then in my colts yet. http://youtu.be/pC5mwOJ2Khg Every few loads clean the cylinder face and relube the cylinder pin.

[Wolfer]

I carry crisco in an empty snuff can. In the past I've used the cheap syringe you get at the feed store, without the needle of course. You can squirt it right in place, not near as messy. But if your concerned about messy then cap and ball is probably not for you.

When I first got mine about 40 years ago an old gunsmith / black powder shooter told me to never shoot it without grease. I never have. He said if the gun was new and the cyl holes were round chain firing was very unlikely. I've seen several originals with oblong throats.
I've had lots of nipple / cap problems where caps would fall off of loaded chambers but have never had a chain fire. Hope I never do! Woody

[Bardo]

When I have made paper cartridges in the past I have had good luck with the perm papers. You can get 1000 for about $3 and each one make 2 cartridges. I have never had a misfire or hang fire with them. I put a slight tapper on them and when I seat the ball I think it splits them open at the bottom. So I have never pricked the paper through the nipple. I have never noticed embers in the chambers after words. One thing before you make a whole bunch with the conical attached make sure the will fit. An Uberti 1851 wont work but my Uberti 1861 has enough room. You can just have the paper and then add the boolit and that works in all the guns I have tried. Its nice if it is windy to not have to deal with loose powder. And you can fit several in an altoides tin along with you wads.

Bardo