British Bull Pup

[Jammersix]

I'm interested in the Bullpup the British carry, in 5.56.

I don't know anything about rifles, I'm a handgun guy.

I assume with that cartridge it would be as easy to fire as an AR.

[Multigunner]

Not sure how much of the following is correct, but this is what I've heard of these over the years.

The rifle was based on the AR18 action converted to bullpup configuration. The early production were found to be a bit flimsey, with receivers getting warped and such. Most of those were scrapped or converted to single shot training rifles.

The heavy barrel squad auto seems to be the most sturdy of the breed.
The rifles have never been particularly liked by the troops that use them, but seem adequate now that the bugs have been worked out.

All bull pup designs have drawbacks, these seem no worse than others of the breed.

[UBER7MM]

The gun the Brits were using in the 80's was the SA 80.
.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sa_80
.
I hope this helps,

[GRid.1569]

L85A1... originally made by Royal Enfield but IIRC now in the hands of H&K...
Not ambi - right hander only... unless you want to remove your teeth
to shoot left of cover you require the shooter to fully expose upper body...

The long barrel version was not good at holding groups in sustained fire mode and guidance was to fire 2-3 rounds rapidliy in semi-auto mode.... I'm sure there's better to be had...

[gew98]

The L85/SA80 family of brit bullpups has a fairly dismal track record. A series of bullpups renown for their continual failure and parts breakages. For over a decade brit soldiers were issued 'field repair kits" that consisted of glue and some plastic bits for when the delicate bits fell off.
Several years ago after all new production of the rifle was discontiued in britain the brits contracted out to Heckler & Koch to refurbish & redesign rifles on hand to make them serviceable. This 'extra' effort cost the brit taxpayers millions of pounds for a very botched design that was even more botched in it's implimentation and manufacture. It has been said it made them a reliable rifle. All I can say is in desert storm french and brit troops were always seeking to ditch their "rifles" for an M16.

[JeffinNZ]

The L85 is living proof of a gun designed by the wrong people who will not concide defeat. I bet most Brits would rather have their FAL's from the Falklands era.
I local boy here has the Cadet version. Not semi auto; essentially a straight pull. Balance is horrible. Didn't like it much.

[singleshot]

Jammersix, I think the bullpup you want is the Israeli Tavor...is that what you meant?

(Maybe I'm projecting, that's the one I want!)

[melter68]

the sa80 is a great rifle, apart from it hits you in the noise when i used it.
5.56 cal, lightweight and strips down good.
If you added the longer barrel with bi pod on it makes a good platoon section weapon.
But i would prefer the older black SLR in 7.62 cal

[bruce drake]

For Bullpup rifles, I would buy a Steyr AUG. I've used it in training with the Aussies. As a Lefty, the AUG allows the user to switch over to Left eject with an optional left-handed bolt and they are starting to be sold again in the US in a semi-auto version.

Bruce

[2wheelDuke]

Jammersix, I think the bullpup you want is the Israeli Tavor...is that what you meant?

(Maybe I'm projecting, that's the one I want!)

I'd love to at least test fire one. On paper, it looks great to me. I'd enjoy the 9mm conversion for ranges where I couldn't fire 5.56.

I got to handle one with the Meprolight sight, and I loved the feel.

[JHeath]

The SA80 is designed for concealed carry. It goes in your hat.

[flyfisher66048]

I'll second the AUG, it is a much better rifle. I really like mine. I can use a tennis racket bag as a gun case

[robertbank]

Shot one in Ottawa a few years back. The balance gets some time to get used to if you are use to a regular rifle configuration. The guns worked well enough and the British troops said they were good rifles. They seemed to manage quite well with them and took home their share of Medals from the competition.

Given the ways Armies of today work I would question the AR pick up story. If I was a trooper I am not so sure I would be jumping at the chance to depend my life on a rifle I had no training on. Better the devil you know...

Take Care

Bob

[herbert buckland]

The British and Australian special forces use the M4 as there main personal wepon,in Australias case this is because the Styer has trouble when emerced in water + with the SAS there is a fair bit of interaction between US, British,NZ and Australian personal,so a common PW just makes sence(the early Styers had there troubles but the newer version is very well liked by Australian troops as I am told is the British bull pup that has been tweeked by H&K)

[JeffinNZ]

I'll second the AUG, it is a much better rifle.

Because the AUG was designed by EU arms makers and not by a committee. NZ has had a good run with them. We must be pushing 30 years now.

[gew98]

Shot one in Ottawa a few years back. The balance gets some time to get used to if you are use to a regular rifle configuration. The guns worked well enough and the British troops said they were good rifles. They seemed to manage quite well with them and took home their share of Medals from the competition.
Given the ways Armies of today work I would question the AR pick up story. If I was a trooper I am not so sure I would be jumping at the chance to depend my life on a rifle I had no training on. Better the devil you know...

Take Care

Bob

Robert ; Desert storm - 1991 not the armies of today. Alot of silly things went on in desert storm back then. The french troops did acquire a fair amount on rifles in 5,56 and 7,62x51 as they truly loathed "Le bugle". The brits could'nt toss their rifles in the sand...but were keen to pick up any M16 type they could. These happenings you won't read about in the books..you had to be there.

[MtGun44]

Scuttlebutt was that it was TOTAL *** at first, but was redesigned and is
now better. How much better? No idea. Seems a shame that they wouldn't
do a better job originally.

My AUG is a good rifle. Handy, too. Only flaw seems to be a need to have
the gas piston cleaned regularly to function reliably.

Bill