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Thread: 1873 relining barrel (pics)

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy
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    1873 relining barrel (pics)

    Hey guys,

    So I got this 1873 winchester with a sewer pipe bore. B/P cartriges tend to rust bores to hell if not cleaned properly.
    Not wanting to totally ruin the collectible value of this old gun, I decided to do a reline job, vs. just fitting a brand new barrel. It at least retains the original patina, barrel markings, and look that belongs with this 100+ year old rifle.

    First thing was to get a new barrel liner of 32-20 from brownells.


    The other tool needed is what's called a subland drill. It's a normal drill bit that has a pilot ground on the end. This ensures when you drill out your old barrel that it follows the bore and doesn't wander. This is a MUST have tool. You cannot properly drill a 24” hole in a straight line without it.


    Brownells wants 80+ dollars for one. Ouch! I think I'll shop around. Found one on ebay in the 1/2” diameter with a 5/16” pilot for 25 bucks. That's more like it! 5/16=.312” which can be ground down, but really didn't need to be ground down because the bore was so rusted!
    Next is a length of drill rod, about 3 feet long. You drill the back end of the drill bit on the lathe the same size as the drill rod. (It's unhardened on the shank.)
    Next, I used low temp plumbing solder to attach the drill to the drill rod extension. The way I look at it, if the drill catches and twists hard enough that it will fail at the weakest point. (solder) instead of twisting everything to hell or breaking my expensive drill. (Brownells says use silver solder...)
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Center your barrel in the chuck. It doesn't have to be dial indicated in, the ground pilot on the drill bit will follow the bore. Just a 3 jaw is sufficient. Place the bore guide in the bore and then attach the drill rod to your tool post holder.
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    Oil your bit with good quality cutting oil, and start drilling! 1/4” at a time and listen for any chatter or squealing sounds. If you get any resistance when drilling, back out the drill! Don't force it and clean your bit every time you withdraw it with a shot of compressed air.

    Do the same to the bore to clear chips out. Re-oil and repeat for the next 4-6 hours. If the barrel starts to get hot, turn off the lathe, go online and read or watch you-tube and wait for it to cool down again.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I started from the muzzle end, and drilled the entire way to the chamber end.

    Next step is to take your barrel liner and measure it. My liner was .505” diameter, meaning I could either buy a reamer a little over that size and waste another 20 bucks and wait another week, or I could just turn the outside diameter of the barrel liner between centers and use sandpaper to get it down to final diameter.
    I didn't take pics of that process because it takes forever, and I needed both my hands.

    You basically just hold the barrel liner between centers on the lathe, cover the ways with plastic to protect them from grit, and get a small belt sander and start going from one end to the other. Stop occasionally and check the diameter with calipers. If you don't have a lathe, you could build a barrel spinning jig to hold the barrel and go at it by hand with a belt sander as well. When you start getting close, take it off the lathe, clean and oil it, and try to fit it inside the barrel. You NEED to oil these parts to prevent galling and getting it stuck together! Wherever you see tight spots, mark them with a sharpie and concentrate your sanding on these areas. It should fit tightly when oiled and take a bit of pressure to press into the barrel. If you get a lot of resistance, take out the liner and mark the scratches and keep sanding until it fits together. Keep it oiled during the fitting process!

    Click image for larger version. 

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    As you can see, the two oiled parts fit together quite nicely! Next, to bond them together:

    Get a good quality epoxy, such as acraglas or if you know someone who builds and repairs aircraft, some aircraft grade epoxy. The wal-mart stuff might work, but I don't trust it with a gun barrel is involved. This isn't the place to go cheap!

    Get your supplies laid out ahead of time and think it through how you're going to proceed.

    I highly recommend multiple pairs of gloves, q-tips, strong paper towels or cotton t-shirt scraps, modeling clay, 2 parts of equal amounts already pre-measured epoxy, a cleaning rod with patches, a scrap of cardboard to mix your resin, and a throw away syringe. (Thanks to Darryl Holland for his tip on syringes!)

    Click image for larger version. 

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    It's important that both the barrel and barrel liner have been triple cleaned with grease cutting solutions such as simple green, brake cleaner, acetone, or anything that will cut any traces of oil off of the steel surfaces. Wherever there is oil, the epoxy will NOT stick. Once you start mixing the epoxy, you are at the point of no return, so think everything out ahead of time!

    Use white vinegar for cleanup of un-set epoxy! (Careful, as vinegar can remove bluing if left on long enough.)

    Continued...
    Last edited by andremajic; 11-30-2013 at 11:56 AM.
    Check out my vendors section:
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?231-Andy-s-Slow-Rust-Blue

    "As democracy is perfected, the office of the President represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day, the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be occupied by a downright fool and complete narcissistic moron."
    H.L. Mencken

  2. #2
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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Plug the bore with modeling clay. This will help keep most of the epoxy out of the bore.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Pour out equal measures of the epoxy and hardener, and start mixing well! I'd recommend mixing for at least 3 minutes straight. If you don't mix properly, you will have soft spots that don't cure.

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    You can see how I made a lot of extra for this job. Again, don't skimp and don't try to scrape everything off the board, there will always be some unmixed epoxy on the board, and if you try to use everything, you will have uncured/soft spots. After mixing, get the syringe, and pull the plunger out.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    You're going to start packing the mixed epoxy in the syringe, by pressing the syringe against the board. (Like packing a bearing with grease.)

    When the syringe is full, place the plunger back in, take it to your barrel, and squirt the contents inside the bore. After emptying it, fill it up again, and fill the barrel with it again.

    Next, take a gloved hand, and start smearing the exterior of the barrel liner with epoxy.

    IMPORTANT: Ensure that you insert the chamber end of the liner toward the chamber end of the barrel. There is a right and wrong end of the liner! The chamber end usually has a groove machined into the end to help tell it from the muzzle end. If you don't install it correctly, you can get friction and excess leading.)

    Next take your slippery epoxy covered liner, and start pressing it into the the epoxy filled end of the bored out barrel. Ensure that you have something to catch the excess epoxy that is pushed out the end when it comes out on the other side!

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    Now, you want to start using your cotton t-shirt scraps and start wiping away all the excess epoxy, change out your gloves with clean ones, wiping out the extractor slots with q-tips, and finally wiping everything that is still sticky with vinegar and rinsing the vinegar off.

    Don't worry too much about excess epoxy around the muzzle or chamber end. You actually want excess there, so that you won't have any air gaps when you dress it smooth. Just ensure that you have extra liner extending out the muzzle end, and the chamber end, so that you can clean it up and have undamaged liner when you cut off the excess.

    Now, go find a safe place to put your clean barrel and wait a week. ('m waiting a week because the chamber go-gauge is on back-order, so I HAVE to wait.) Let the epoxy cure fully, and pat yourself on the back.

    Don't worry about the yellowish color of the epoxy. As it cures, it turns clear, like glass.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Get your cleaning jag out, and start cleaning the clay out, and any stray epoxy that might have made it into the bore. Don't worry about the threads, you can clean the epoxy off with a sharp dental pick, besides, you still got to remove the excess liner later, ream the chamber, and file the extractor slots.

    Now, you can go and find another project to use the remainder of the epoxy on, before it sets up!
    A good use for odd bits of epoxy if you have done a cheap krylon spray paint camo job on a stock.
    Get a pair of gloves on, rub both your hands together to mix together the epoxy, and slather it on over the camo paint.
    Hang the stock by a piece of twine so that it won't come in contact with any surfaces, and when it's cured, take it down.
    It will lock in the color and act as a clear coat, making your relatively inexpensive paint job chemical resistant to solvents and cleaners. If you don't like the gloss look, rub it down with fine sandpaper for a more matte finish.

    To be continued at a later date...
    Check out my vendors section:
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?231-Andy-s-Slow-Rust-Blue

    "As democracy is perfected, the office of the President represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day, the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be occupied by a downright fool and complete narcissistic moron."
    H.L. Mencken

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    Boolit Master AlaskanGuy's Avatar
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    Very very nice work and write up... Thanks for posting.

  4. #4
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    My pleasure! There didn't seem to be a lot of info on the internet about it, so after doing some research, I figured I'd share lessons learned and how I did it to help others in the same predicament.

    The guys that professionally do barrel re-lining earn every red cent they get! It's a lot of effort involved, and I've got nothing but respect for them after doing it myself!

    Andy.
    Check out my vendors section:
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?231-Andy-s-Slow-Rust-Blue

    "As democracy is perfected, the office of the President represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day, the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be occupied by a downright fool and complete narcissistic moron."
    H.L. Mencken

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    Boolit Master AlaskanGuy's Avatar
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    And i, have great respect for you for doing it, and posting about it for all to learn. That, to me, is why this forum exists. To share what we learn, and help others become all that they can be... Sounds corny, but its how i think.

    AG

  6. #6
    Boolit Master

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    Good write up and the pics make it easy to understand.
    Facta non verba

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    good job. I make my drills out of core drills. they are made to fallow a hole. you can grind the end and put a pilot bushing on it.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master Just Duke's Avatar
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    Is she done?

  9. #9
    Boolit Buddy
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    Ok, so next step was to indicate off the bore of the liner from the muzzle end. Ignoring the jumps of the needle for the land/groove difference, managed to get it dialed in on both ends, while holding it in a 4 jaw chuck, with a spider on the outboard side of the headstock
    Not bad, with variations of only .0005" - Good enough for Govt. work!

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Next, using a freshly ground High speed steel tool, with the edges honed on a stone, the barrel liner was cut away until I reached the original muzzle.
    I only removed enough to get rid of the pitting and left some of the original outside edges of the barrel intact.
    You can tell your tool was ground properly when you can take steel wool shavings off the muzzle when bringing it into contact with it.
    (The shavings in the pic are about 0000 steel wool or finer. Very soft, curled, and fluffy.)

    Click image for larger version. 

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    If you look hard, you might be able to see the seam line between liner and barrel, but it's almost imperceptible.
    After the pic, I polished the surface with 320 grit sandpaper, and used a hardened ball bearing and some 600 grit lapping compound on the muzzle opening, while rotating the ball.

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    Now it's time to deepen the extractor slot using the original as a guide.
    You can use a high speed grinding wheel of the correct width, or you can take the safer route with a safe-edge file.
    (Grind the teeth off one side on your belt sander. This is your "safe edge".)
    It's a lot harder to screw up with hand tools!

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    You're going to "short stroke" the file. Basically, just move the file a quarter inch forward, pull it back to start, and move it another quarter inch forward.
    Repeat ad infinitum until you get there. This is an exercise in patience. Patience is a good thing!

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Screw on the reciever and put all the parts back in with it attached to the barrel.
    You can actually leave the carrier block and forward carrier lever, and entire trigger group in, but you'll need to take apart the breechblock (bolt), finger lever, and link assemblies and sideplates off each time you unscrew the barrel.

    Close the breechblock. Watch to make sure the extractor isn't riding up the ramp of the cutout and raising the breechblock. Mine was, so all the parts came back off, and back to short stroking with the file.

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    You will get very familiar with assembly/disassembly of your rifle by putting it together and taking it apart to check the extractor fit.
    Repetition is good. It will drill into you the correct way to do things and you'll have it memorized by the time you're done!

    (If you look in the pic below, you can see the oil missing where the action wrench pads rubbed it off. You will need to tighten it to the action each time you re-assemble to line up the extractor slot and check bolt fit.)

    Click image for larger version. 

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    With it fully reassembled. Checking to see if there are any feeding/extraction issues.
    You aren't supposed to gingerly chamber or extract rounds with this rifle, so test it full speed if you notice the extractor isn't pulling it out 100 percent and you'll probably have no problem extracting.
    I was slowly opening the bolt and wondering why the extractor let go of the round when it was 60 percent back.
    Working the action at full speed, the round pops out and flies up and out of there! There's a nice clink/clink sound as the carrier block moves up and down.

    Attachment 88812

    I'm sorry I didn't take pictures while I was chambering it. I needed both hands available and no one was around for pics.

    Next will be a range report and pics of the rifle.
    Andy
    Last edited by andremajic; 11-30-2013 at 12:00 PM.
    Check out my vendors section:
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?231-Andy-s-Slow-Rust-Blue

    "As democracy is perfected, the office of the President represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day, the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be occupied by a downright fool and complete narcissistic moron."
    H.L. Mencken

  10. #10
    Boolit Master Just Duke's Avatar
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    The pictures are much more informative than the phone calls. lol
    What was that? Excuse me? Did someone say color case hardening on the receiver?

  11. #11
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by DUKE NUKEM View Post
    The pictures are much more informative than the phone calls. lol
    What was that? Excuse me? Did someone say color case hardening on the receiver?
    Case hardening would look awesome on this. The original finish wore off probably in the last 7 decades, and it's more of a plum brown now.
    Some day...
    Check out my vendors section:
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?231-Andy-s-Slow-Rust-Blue

    "As democracy is perfected, the office of the President represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day, the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be occupied by a downright fool and complete narcissistic moron."
    H.L. Mencken

  12. #12
    Boolit Bub Chuck_ls's Avatar
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    Good idea on the piloted drill. I want to reline a .22, but the cost of the drill made me rethink the idea. I will start looking at the machinists sites for a drill.

    Chuck

  13. #13
    Boolit Man
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    Great write up. Thank you very much for putting all the pictures together. Have you tired using rubbing alcohol to clean up the epoxy? Thats what I use when I put the handles on my knives and no risk of taking off the blueing

  14. #14
    Boolit Grand Master


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    Good morning and Thank you for the tutoral !
    Have a 73 with near the same caliber 32-20 barrel condition. Mine will still do groundhog shoulder at 25 yards but after that it gets iffy.
    Have you considered selling your drill ? Maybe the flock of us who need this size drill could sell it around to those other members who have the desire to make the old "73" a real hunting rifle again.
    Mike in Peru
    "Behold The Lamb of God that taketh away the sin of the world". John 1:29
    Male Guanaco out in dry lakebed at 10,800 feet south of Arequipa.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master
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    Nice work!

    Here is an article I wrote on my first reline......Also a Winchester 1873

    http://rvbprecision.com/shooting/1873-winchester.html
    Roy B
    Massachusetts

    www.rvbprecision.com

  16. #16
    Boolit Master Pb2au's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbertalotto View Post
    Nice work!

    Here is an article I wrote on my first reline......Also a Winchester 1873

    http://rvbprecision.com/shooting/1873-winchester.html
    Roy,
    I had followed your relining project and was mighty awed. This one is no different!
    I noticed some of the pictures are missing from your thread. Is it my browser or are others noticing this as well?

    Many thanks to both of you, great tutorials!

  17. #17
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by missionary5155 View Post
    Good morning and Thank you for the tutoral !
    Have a 73 with near the same caliber 32-20 barrel condition. Mine will still do groundhog shoulder at 25 yards but after that it gets iffy.
    Have you considered selling your drill ? Maybe the flock of us who need this size drill could sell it around to those other members who have the desire to make the old "73" a real hunting rifle again.
    Mike in Peru
    Sure I can sell it. I can always make another one I suppose.
    Send me a PM and we'll work something out.
    Check out my vendors section:
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?231-Andy-s-Slow-Rust-Blue

    "As democracy is perfected, the office of the President represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day, the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be occupied by a downright fool and complete narcissistic moron."
    H.L. Mencken

  18. #18
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by akraven View Post
    Great write up. Thank you very much for putting all the pictures together. Have you tired using rubbing alcohol to clean up the epoxy? Thats what I use when I put the handles on my knives and no risk of taking off the blueing
    I'll have to remember that tip for next time. thanks!
    Check out my vendors section:
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?231-Andy-s-Slow-Rust-Blue

    "As democracy is perfected, the office of the President represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day, the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be occupied by a downright fool and complete narcissistic moron."
    H.L. Mencken

  19. #19
    Boolit Man
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    Quote Originally Posted by andremajic View Post
    I'll have to remember that tip for next time. thanks!
    Glad to help!

  20. #20
    Boolit Master Just Duke's Avatar
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    We need some before and after pics.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check