simple Hi-Tek coating

[gunoil]

I shot some old boxes of lead lube/alox boolits i had today to get rid of em. Thats stuff and smoke and all makes you sick at indoor range or bout anywhere. Hi-Tek supercoat does not. I feel like a dogs @$$. Well, i'll eat some wombat stew and drink a coke.

[zomby woof]

OK, 15 gr 2400, 3x green in 30/30 @50, 1600fps is a NO GO. 13 gr gave bad vertical stringing. 20 gr. LeverE was good for accuracy but 1300 fps. Back to PC for rifle.
Attachment 83860
This is what I got off the choreboy/brush - doesn't include the junk on the patches. Big time sewer pipe. Bbl was cleaned before this outing. 60 rnds but was bad from the get go.

I'm by no means an expert, but I would guess your coating wasn't cured.

[Danderdude]

I'm by no means an expert, but I would guess your coating wasn't cured.

OR the bullet was simply too soft, as a result of annealing.

So I ask again, what happens to Hi-Tek when it's heated to 450F/230C?

[HI-TEK]

OK, 15 gr 2400, 3x green in 30/30 @50, 1600fps is a NO GO. 13 gr gave bad vertical stringing. 20 gr. LeverE was good for accuracy but 1300 fps. Back to PC for rifle.
Attachment 83860
This is what I got off the choreboy/brush - doesn't include the junk on the patches. Big time sewer pipe. Bbl was cleaned before this outing. 60 rnds but was bad from the get go.

Most interesting results.
You must give me your method, how you can get that amount of gunk out of a barrel?
I have never seen such gunk with any previous user.
Most interesting part is, that the stick and scraped gunk is dark blue coloured.
How can that be? Properly baked coating is Green not Blue.
Most puzzling.
I would suggest, that you go back to your supplier, and may be visit his premises and discuss your method and get some tips.
What you are showing is definitely not caused by correct application of the coating....

[nighthunter]

Most people don't like to be told they are doing something wrong or that their methods are incorrect but sometimes it has to be done. We all make mistakes once is a while. Reevaluating your methods is part of the learning process, especially if your results with a product are inferior to the results of what others are achieving with the same product. Sometimes we have to admit that yes it was me that screwed up. Learn from it and move on.

Nighthunter

[Love Life]

OR the bullet was simply too soft, as a result of annealing.

So I ask again, what happens to Hi-Tek when it's heated to 450F/230C?

Buy some, heat it up to the temp you want info on, report back...

[Ausglock]

Buy some, heat it up to the temp you want info on, report back...

Ditto.
The rest of us are too busy casting, coating and shooting to piss around with strange requests.
Try it for yourself and enlighten us.

[gunoil]

popper, how'ed you get that much car paint inside your barrel.

[Love Life]

Dang Popper!! You sure you didn't coat them in wood glue on accident?

ETA- The whole losing hardness and trying to reheat to heat treat was covered in this thread a ways back.

[popper]

Back off guys. This is the same alloy (PC) I push to 2400 fps 1 MOA in AR 308 carbine. The HiTek is the dark green that I got for PISTOL. It seems to be OK below 1300 fps ish. The last cook I dropped the temp to 350F to get the BHN back, got about half back, still no go. They are non-GC RD311 170. I can get 2 MOA @ ~1800 fps using PC and softer alloy. I could make Unique loads @ 12-1300, but why? Shot a bunch of 40 & 9, works fine. When HiTek gets a HV rifle coating I'll try it.
The stick is a toothpick I use to roll and separate UNCOOKED, the gunk is definitely BLACK. Lots of sparkles in it too. Maybe a GC would keep the gunk down but why add $0.03 per boolit when I have a working solution without it.
Ausglock post your specs and results for rifle please. I only posted this info as I see some are wanting to use it (HiTek) in rifle, hate to see them spend $100 on something that may not work for them.
DanderDude 200F will remove any hardness.

[nighthunter]

Popper ... I'm getting decent velocity and accuracy with the red/copper coating. Why not give it a try before you give up. Are you sure you are using enough catylist in the mixture? Something you are doing has to be the problem. Have you used an oven temp guage in you oven? I think the cook time starts when the oven reaches 375-380. Not setting the timer for 10 minutes with the temp dial at 375. I'm just trying to help.

Nighthunter

[popper]

nighthunter Put some numbers to the red/copper that you use. There is a lot of interest in it for rifle, members need to know results, not just a 'works for me' statement. Leadman has given some help on the BHN problem, but no accuracy/velocity numbers. Yes, I'm using a PID and watch.

[HI-TEK]

Back off guys. This is the same alloy I push to 2400 fps 1 MOA in AR 308 carbine. The HiTek is the dark green. It seems to be OK below 1300 fps ish. The last cook I dropped the temp to 350F to get the BHN back, got about half back, still no go. They are non-GC RD311 170. I can get 2 MOA @ ~1800 fps using PC and softer alloy. I could make Unique loads @ 12-1300, but why? Shot a bunch of 40 & 9, works fine. When HiTek gets a HV rifle coating I'll try it.

Thanks for explanation. Your idea is sound with respect to trying to maintain alloy hardness by keeping temperatures down.

However, the coating requires minimum of 180C (at least 370F) for minimum of 10 minutes.
(With most Powder coatings the cure is done at 390F for about 20 minutes)
This temperature, as also used for powder coating, will also soften alloy as would be done with the HT coating.
Now it seems to be more clear, why the coating scraped out of your barrel is still blue, as it has not been subjected to correct cure temperature and time for long enough.
At 350F all you are doing is drying the coating and it does not harden, and will not bond to alloy, as that is achieved above 180C.
This certainly will cause problems you have experienced.

All instructions about applying the coating advises, (or should advise), that the the coating must be subjected to at least 180C for 10 to 15 minutes it to work correctly.
At 190C (380F) that time is reduced to between 8-12 minutes.
Many have found, that depending on metal loading in oven, some had required to heat at 200C (392F) for a total of 12 minutes.
Thereafter, and after exposure to 390F for 12 minutes, the coating will definitely will not melt as it is extremely stable.
I know that this is not what you require or are aiming for maintaining alloy hardness.
But I have seen many posting excellent results with various alloys in similar velocities that you seem to be having problems with.
I do not know what else to advise to help out, as making your own alloys, is outside areas of my expertise, and may be others can assist with this area who had successfully made suitable alloys for such use..

[Ausglock]

Popper. I have no hard data. Other than heaps of dead pigs, goats, Dogs, Camels, Buffalos and donkeys etc etc etc.

[leadman]

Danderdude, the coating will start to turn darker and may get brittle at 400 degrees. I have experimented with water quenched and heat treated boolits coated with Red Copper and to get the highest velocity I heat treated linotype to 35 BHN, then coated with Red Copper, baked to 375 degrees and then turned the heat down to 350 degrees. It takes several minutes to drop the temperature and this allows the coating to cure. I used 2 coats with the Extreme 2 Catalyst.
My attempts to maintain water quenched BHN did not work. Not saying it can't be done but it is easier to use an alloy that has it BHN from the components of the alloy rather than from water quenching or heat treating.
I have use 17 BHN Lee 30 caliber boolits coated with Red Copper up to around 2,000 fps and was able to maintain accuracy. I also installed gas checks. The aluminum checks sold by 338REMUltramag here are $18 per thousand so that is a big help, and they work very well.
popper, I posted velocity and accuracy results a ways back with the 223 Rem. 3,465fps, 1.8" at 100 yards, no leading. 30-06 was up around 2,500fps with the Lyman 314299 but accuracy was around 5" IIRC. I think the Lee 200gr might shoot better from recent testing with it.

Off to hunt elk in the mountains tomorrow!

[Love Life]

Back off guys.

Just pulling your leg. I should have added one of these.

[Gremlin460]

Just to make ShotgunDrums happy I can inform him the Purple arrived today.

The nice happy cheerful StarTrack driver was met at the gate buy the wife as I was out.
Out of the two of us, it would have been better (for him) if I was home.
She's a bit of a firebrand when upset, and she was very upset.

So now its a toss-up wether I coat on sunday or watch Bathurst.

[Ausglock]

Just to make ShotgunDrums happy I can inform him the Purple arrived today.

The nice happy cheerful StarTrack driver was met at the gate buy the wife as I was out.
Out of the two of us, it would have been better (for him) if I was home.
She's a bit of a firebrand when upset, and she was very upset.

So now its a toss-up wether I coat on sunday or watch Bathurst.

Take a TV to the shed and do both....

What is the colour code?

[Shotgundrums]

Just to make ShotgunDrums happy I can inform him the Purple arrived today.

The nice happy cheerful StarTrack driver was met at the gate buy the wife as I was out.
Out of the two of us, it would have been better (for him) if I was home.
She's a bit of a firebrand when upset, and she was very upset.

So now its a toss-up wether I coat on sunday or watch Bathurst.

Alright!! Finally lol. Def post pics please

[Danderdude]

Buy some, heat it up to the temp you want info on, report back...

Ditto.
The rest of us are too busy casting, coating and shooting to piss around with strange requests.
Try it for yourself and enlighten us.

Yeah, and just write off the $200 entry fee on a maybe? There are enough people on here with HT lube that I shouldn't have to, when all it takes is cooking 5 boolits extra hot. There are also people who should know this already, like the maker (hint hint).

The snark was uncalled for.

Danderdude, the coating will start to turn darker and may get brittle at 400 degrees.

Alright, so Hi-Tek fries at temps you need to get lead to in order to heat treat...
Meaning you have to use an alloy higher in tin and antimony...
Meaning your alloy now costs 2-4 times more...
And density is reduced for a lower ballistic coefficient.

Dang. What a relief it is to know you dodged an expensive bullet. Yall have fun with your colorful phenol formaldehyde, I'm doubling down on 45-45-10 and Star lubesizing, smoke be damned.