What a cracked Krag Bolt Looks Like

[nicholst55]

I once dropped a Krag bolt from about 3-4 feet onto a concrete garage floor. The bolt handle broke right at the root! Yikes!!! Needless to say, I replaced it.

[uscra112]

Of course, but as far as the military was concerned that was close enough. So long as the bolt closed on the rims and the case head didn't blow out it was good to go.
IIRC the military specs called for a .004 to .006 head-gap (as opposed to headspace) when using nominal .060 rims.
Also its likely the first bolt was worn but receiver was not. Sounds like the replacement bolt fit just fine. At least with the cases you were using.

While the Krag manuals list the rim thickness of the .30-40 as .060, that's the minimum, milspec cases could have rims up to .065, and some commercial ammo averaged much thicker rims.

Sounds like the earliest known instance of "close enough for Government work".

'Course it was a military arm and had to function with less than optimal ammo, and they probably didn't care about case life, whereas as we reloaders do. Heck, I've read that the design life of WW2 airframes was only 400 hours. (Makes you think when you see those 65 year old warbirds at air shows.)

Wish I had a stack of bolts around to do a study of the actual variance. As it is I've only got 5, and that's not much of a sample.

Hate to think that a lug could be worn six thousandths.

[Multigunner]

Sounds like the earliest known instance of "close enough for Government work".

'Course it was a military arm and had to function with less than optimal ammo, and they probably didn't care about case life, whereas as we reloaders do. Heck, I've read that the design life of WW2 airframes was only 400 hours. (Makes you think when you see those 65 year old warbirds at air shows.)

Wish I had a stack of bolts around to do a study of the actual variance. As it is I've only got 5, and that's not much of a sample.

Hate to think that a lug could be worn six thousandths.

I've seen wear and set back worse than that on military bolts.
Also some target shooters liked to lap a bolt till the safety lug made contact, giving up headspace in return for better lockup.

Krags were expected to have fairly tight headspace when new, but so long as the rifle functioned without burst cases they weren't likely to condemn a rifle over a few thou extra clearance.
Then you'd have to consider the use and abuse of decades after being sold off.

From what I'd read the over charged ammo could cause lug setback as often as cracked bolts, depending on the heat treatment.

[JTCoyoté]

I've seen wear and set back worse than that on military bolts.
Also some target shooters liked to lap a bolt till the safety lug made contact, giving up headspace in return for better lockup.

Krags were expected to have fairly tight headspace when new, but so long as the rifle functioned without burst cases they weren't likely to condemn a rifle over a few thou extra clearance.
Then you'd have to consider the use and abuse of decades after being sold off.

From what I'd read the over charged ammo could cause lug setback as often as cracked bolts, depending on the heat treatment.

This is exactly what happened in most cases, brittle bolts would crack, the softer ones would stretch a bit. In effect this would actually strengthen the action by a kind of rudimentary timing of the second lug... Ackley mused about this as well, during his many attempts to blow up US Krag actions.

The US Army had a unique way of cutting costs with the Krag... the barrels were set to head space using the front lug, leaving the rear lug about .006 to .010" loose as a safety lug just in case something happened up front. This was cheap to do and required little time.

The US Krag's Danish and Norwegian cousins however, had both lugs meticulously lapped and fitted to lock up together. This additional bit of gunsmith's artistry along with superior metallurgy made these Krags 47,000 CUP rifles. The US ordnance boy's were having none of this costly "artsy fartsy" stuff though... so the US version had to take a beating first, to gain a similar result.

I have three Krags, 2 US 30-40s and a 6.5x55mm Norge. One of the US units, a sporter, is fitted with an 03-A3 two land, 1~10" barrel. The receiver end has a slight shoulder that protrudes .010" toward the bolt compensating for the lapped front lug. This Krag has perfect 2nd lug lockup. In effect it feels a lot like the Norwegian when you close the bolt on a round...Solid. ~JT

[madsenshooter]

Some of the bolts must have been fitted. I have one 92/96 that has a full width guide rib that bears on the receiver, but it doesn't appear the front lug was lapped to make that happen. Other things indicate someone who knew what they were doing has worked on it over the years. The trigger has no overtravel and is the best of all my Krag rifles. It also has a 1902 sight with the smallest adjustment notches on the side of the leaf. Must've been someone's target rifle at one time, maybe a rifle built for one of the service teams or something along those lines.

[Multigunner]

Some of the bolts must have been fitted. I have one 92/96 that has a full width guide rib that bears on the receiver, but it doesn't appear the front lug was lapped to make that happen. Other things indicate someone who knew what they were doing has worked on it over the years. The trigger has no overtravel and is the best of all my Krag rifles. It also has a 1902 sight with the smallest adjustment notches on the side of the leaf. Must've been someone's target rifle at one time, maybe a rifle built for one of the service teams or something along those lines.

Could be.
Theres a book available as a free download at the Internet archive that has a section on chosing a Krag for competition shooting and a simple and reversible modification to take all the slack out of the trigger.

I'll look for a link.

[JTCoyoté]

Some of the bolts must have been fitted. I have one 92/96 that has a full width guide rib that bears on the receiver, but it doesn't appear the front lug was lapped to make that happen. Other things indicate someone who knew what they were doing has worked on it over the years. The trigger has no overtravel and is the best of all my Krag rifles. It also has a 1902 sight with the smallest adjustment notches on the side of the leaf. Must've been someone's target rifle at one time, maybe a rifle built for one of the service teams or something along those lines.

This is likely the "stretch" fitting I mentioned in my last post which would happen if a properly hardened Krag bolt and receiver was subjected to hot loads early on.

However, like Multigunner said, this would add the amount of bolt set back to the head space. This increase in head space was eliminated in my case when the new barrel was properly fitted. ~JT

[madsenshooter]

No extra headspace in this one either, course the barrel may have been fitted when redone to eliminate that. I'd say the barrel was pretty close to new when I got it, had a shorter throat than my worn ones. The trigger on this one is something I'm not going to mess with, easy as it is to do. I like the two stage military trigger, and any improvement would have me not passing the 4lb tests, it's close as is.

[Multigunner]

I've read that some rifles came from the factory with full bearing on both lugs, It was speculated that this was simply due to variations in machining of receivers, but it may have been due to slight setback in proof testing.
They don't seem to have made much effort to insure an exact clearance for the guide rib lug. So long as the front lug made full contact it was good to go.

When they offered free replacement bolts to civilian owners who'd had cracked bolts due to the over charged milsurp ammo the reprint of the message I read said that bolts did not require fitting, that all were machined to the same specifications.
Even if true that would not take into account setback of the receiver seats.

[JTCoyoté]

I've read that some rifles came from the factory with full bearing on both lugs, It was speculated that this was simply due to variations in machining of receivers, but it may have been due to slight setback in proof testing.
They don't seem to have made much effort to insure an exact clearance for the guide rib lug. So long as the front lug made full contact it was good to go.

When they offered free replacement bolts to civilian owners who'd had cracked bolts due to the over charged milsurp ammo the reprint of the message I read said that bolts did not require fitting, that all were machined to the same specifications.
Even if true that would not take into account setback of the receiver seats.

There is no doubt that virtually all US Krags with original barrels whether fitted with new bolts or were among those to have properly treated bolts from the onset, if they have reached a point close to dual lug lockup will have excessive head space to some degree. I have yet to see an original that didn't. My first hunting rifle as a young teen was just such a Krag.

My father instructed me that my rifle was to be used as a single shot that 1st year and that each round was to be seated all the way into the chamber with my thumb before I closed the bolt... and, he explained why... he also inspected my rifle every time I cleaned it to be sure that the chamber was always clean and wiped free of oil.

In every one of the half dozen shots I fired from the Krag that season the case stayed put... the primers however would back out to the bolt face about .015". By the next year, the Krag had received a properly head spaced '03 barrel. This was 54 years ago... my how time flies.

Whether by deepening the seat, or a short base shoulder protruding slightly into the front of the bolt channel, when setback one thread, chamber refreshed, and both lugs bearing.... all those head space issues and that relegation to very low pressure 'cause of one lug stigma, vanish from the US Krag like ghosts at dawn. ~JT

[madsenshooter]

Being at the armory during rebuild time, a fellow would have the ability to go back into the process. For instance, back before the step of machining the guide rib. He'd then have one he could fit to the rifle he was working on, perhaps building for some officer. I've read Whelen got his from the armory. The bolt body on mine is a 92 bolt however. If I found a later bolt with a full width guide rib, then maybe the scenario I put forth would be more plausible. Still, an armorer would have been able to go back in the process and get some boltbodies he could fit if he wanted to.

[JTCoyoté]

Townson Whelen spoke affectionately of his armory built 30-40, and there were no doubt many others like it crafted at the armory in the days just after the Krags were decommissioned. Still others were made in the shops of reputed smiths from the many barrels of sold as surplus actions, bolts, the bundles of surplus stocks and other parts that were available in the late teens, 20s and 30s... in addition to the complete surplus rifles themselves, available well until the late 1960s.

I think that your idea could best be affected today by having a new bolt body machined from modern steel and fitted to your rifle, since the days of finding a pristine unfitted original Krag bolt body is long past... --JT

[madsenshooter]

I knew a gun parts dealer had some new ones a couple years ago, haven't checked back with him since. New bolts were so bright that one fellow who bought one pickled his so that it would better match his rifle. Come to think of it, I have that bolt body somewhere. Guy was taking a gunsmith course and he lapped the locking lug so that the guide rib would bear. Once he discovered how much it altered headspace, he bought another new one. These bolts were softer than the receiver, his lapping took very little off the receiver, but quite a bit off the locking lug. Dealer that had them, Poppert's, but it's been a few years now. They were finished though, not an unfinished bolt one could fit.

[JTCoyoté]

I knew a gun parts dealer had some new ones a couple years ago, haven't checked back with him since. New bolts were so bright that one fellow who bought one pickled his so that it would better match his rifle. Come to think of it, I have that bolt body somewhere. Guy was taking a gunsmith course and he lapped the locking lug so that the guide rib would bear. Once he discovered how much it altered headspace, he bought another new one. These bolts were softer than the receiver, his lapping took very little off the receiver, but quite a bit off the locking lug. Dealer that had them, Poppert's, but it's been a few years now. They were finished though, not an unfinished bolt one could fit.

In their e-catalog, Poppert's doesn't even list the Krag anymore... Numrich, e-gunparts.com lists bolts for the Norwegian, and bolt sleeves for the Danish Krag... nothing for the US Krag.

If you have a new wide rib bolt just laying around there somewhere, I'd be locating that puppy... --JT

[madsenshooter]

It wasn't a wide rib, just a new regular bolt body. Only wide rib I have is the one in my parkerized 92/96. I hate to admit it, but have to, it has survived some loads that I probably shouldn't have shot, loads that may have ruined a rifle that didn't have both lugs bearing. http://www.poppertsgunparts.com/cgi-...unction=Search

They only show stripped bolt bodies now, you'd have to call them about the new ones. Since I saw someone somewhere selling a bunch of new ones, maybe on ebay, they may all be gone now.

[Bret4207]

I once dropped a Krag bolt from about 3-4 feet onto a concrete garage floor. The bolt handle broke right at the root! Yikes!!! Needless to say, I replaced it.

In the mid 70's I dropped the bolt from a commercial rifle on our concrete floor and it broke clean off too. I forget if it was a Rem or Win, but it was brand new and Dad was not at all happy.

Real nice discussion here guys. I enjoyed it. I have yet to get my Krag out and actually fire it. Shame on me!

[Multigunner]

Being at the armory during rebuild time, a fellow would have the ability to go back into the process. For instance, back before the step of machining the guide rib. He'd then have one he could fit to the rifle he was working on, perhaps building for some officer. I've read Whelen got his from the armory. The bolt body on mine is a 92 bolt however. If I found a later bolt with a full width guide rib, then maybe the scenario I put forth would be more plausible. Still, an armorer would have been able to go back in the process and get some boltbodies he could fit if he wanted to.

Years ago I saw a photo spread on a custom presentation grade Krag built for a civilian businessman who had done a lot to help out the Army in some way.
It was a real beauty with a engraved plaque inlaid in a finely figured stock.
No mention was made of the lugs, but the rifle was apparently set up for match shooting.
Not sure but I think they found the rifle in the closet of the man's office many years after he passed away.