Die questions

[Cane_man]

^^^ only used one bullet per size, literally only used 3 production bullets total for lapping...

just center drilled a hole in the base and screwed in a 3" brass wood screw in the base, it wasn't exactly on center but it didn't seem to matter as the shank seems to keep in on center fairly well... i ground off the remaining threads of the brass screw so it wouldnt score the die, but i just used some pliars to grab the head of the brass screw, inserted the lap, and then plunged it inside the die working 1/3 of the bullet at a time... when you first put in a new lap you have to move slowly as the die is opening up as you move forward, if you work it too hard at first it will cut a ring inside your die and i found out you dont want that to happen!

[customcutter]

Thanks Cane,
I guess where I am seeing the wear on the brass screw is where you were gripping with the pliers. Also you only barely screwed the screw into the bullet other wise it would have bulged the base dimension. I guess I can pull a few bullets, as all of mine have been "reloaded". I may even pull some "Vmax's" that I have. I'm still a little worried about keeping the bullet properly aligned with the die, but I'm sure it's not a big deal.

[Cane_man]

the wear you see is where i ground down the threads on the screw so it wouldnt score the die, i gripped the screw on the head with pliars when i was lapping... i can send you 10 bullets or whatever you need to get this job done if you need them, just let me know...

can't remember what i did but i center drilled, not sure if i pilot drilled with 1/8" or not... all i know is don't think the shank dimensions changed but i didnt measure so i dont know for sure...

[Cane_man]

like this, "Okie Lapping 101" or the pliar lapping method if you will... just move the bullet-lap in a little and let it dwell, in a little more and let it dwell, then to the tip and let it dwell... do this over a minute or so and pull it out, wipe all the cr@p off, apply more diamond lapping paste, and do it again, rinse repeat... but remember when you are just starting to use a new lap go slowly and dont force it:



here the lathe is stationary, but you would be spinning the lathe as fast as you can get it... believe it or not i get really good control with the pliars and i can keep the the whole thing fairly on center...

it really works, look how close i got to matching the production bullet:

[customcutter]

Thanks I can pull some bullets no problems, if I decide to go that route. Didn't think about the screw contacting the die. I'm thinking the farther into the die that the bullet is seated, the farther you have to punch it out. I'm sure the bullet laps will work just have to make up my mind which way I want to go with it.

[customcutter]

Another setback. I drilled and threaded a piece of 1/2" for the core seating section of the die on Saturday evening. Went back out this afternoon to work on the main die body and pulled a quick measurement one the core seating hole. Mind you I drilled so that it would be undersized and I could lap up to size. It measured .228

No problem I'll chuck up another piece of 1/2" and start over with a "much smaller" drill bit. This one finished out at .211 so I'll have plenty of lapping to do. Went ahead and cut my 20 X 1/2 threads.

Started on the main die body, drilled the tapping hole by the chart on the wall, cut the 7/8 X 14 threads on the OD and hand fitted them to my reloading press bushing and they are nice and tight no wiggle or wobble. Pulled out my tap and die set for the 1/2 X 20 tap tried for about 1/2hr to get the tap to bite in but it doesn't want to start. I even tried using the tailstock chuck to push it in while hand turning the headstock but no luck. I can't find a bushing to fit the tap that will fit my boring bar holder, got every other size but not that one. I guess I'll have to make one. That way I can engage the carriage feed while hand turning the headstock and feed it in under pressure. I wouldn't advise doing it under power but I think I can do it by hand if I'm careful reversing direction frequently. IIRC the annealing process for 4140PH requires a slow drop in temp every hour, so I think annealing is out. I guess I might have to order some 7/8 W-1 or O-1 and resolve a lot of issues. I know I haven't been

[Cane_man]

LOL, sorry i just had to laugh because i have been there so many times!

Sure you just dont want to buy a threaded die body from Lee for $14? its alot easier 9/16" round bar drops right in perfectly, just cut to length and drill/ream/lap the inside to whatever is needed...



its threaded on the inside 1" to 5/8-fine

[customcutter]

That's too easy, I want to do it the hard way. Actually I want the die body threaded on the top and the bottom, so that I can adjust it accordingly.

[sprinkintime]

3/64, you gotta be kidding! So far I've tried 1/16 on 3 different dies, and broke the drill every time while step drilling. I have managed to drill them out by drilling from the opposite end and pushing the broken tip out. Don't tell me you drilled out that entire punch pin and the set screw is only holding the music wire

Customcutter, do you know what a pecker drill is, thats the only name I know it by, it used for small drills and operates by your thumb and forfinger, moving it up and down, you have a much better control of the drill pressure,and will cut way down on your breakage. Sprink

[sprinkintime]

Where did you get a 3/64 drill bit that long? It looks like you drilled at least 2" deep.

Customcutter, they make aircraft drills that are 6" long and with a 135 degree point will help you a lot, reversing you part when they intersect with not be true to each other. Sprink

[teddyblu]

Customcutter: I am certain you are using the proper tap, but there are starter taps and bottoming taps and the latter will not start under normal proceedures Just a thought.

[customcutter]

I posted on Homeshopmachinist forum and found out I had used the wrong drill size. I used the drill for 1/2 X 13 NC instead of 1/2 X 20 NF 2/64" makes a big difference. I'll try again this afternoon.

[Cane_man]

Customcutter, they make aircraft drills that are 6" long and with a 135 degree point will help you a lot, reversing you part when they intersect with not be true to each other. Sprink

sprink, where could i find one of those?

[Prospector Howard]

Your favorite place to buy stuff, Mcmaster Carr. Put: short-flute extended reach drill bit in the "find" bar. I tried to tell you about them at Mcmaster months ago. I also use the wire gauge sizes (the shank part) in Cobalt steel for derim punches. Best derim punch material I've found. Also the cobalt bits drill way better, especially in the smaller sizes to drill for the extractor punch hole.

sprink, where could i find one of those?

[Cane_man]

got it! i'm a little slow sometimes... got me a 3/64 and 1/16 for the 30 cal project this winter

[customcutter]

Prospector, I'm a little slow too. Have you tried the cobalt bits for an ejection punch?

thanks,
CC

Should have said and ejection punch for the point forming die?

[customcutter]

I guess I work hardened the 4140PH even more, when drilling it out, and cutting the external threads. I even oversize drilled the hole and barely got the tap to thread about 1/2" deep. Feels like it's about to break the tap. Time to order that stick of 0-1 or W-1 in 7/8".

[Prospector Howard]

Yes, worked good for me for ejection punches; plenty stiff enough. That's what's so good about those long shanked drill bits. If you cut part of the shank off to use for something, you still have a short drill bit left over for other things (as long as you leave enough shank on it for the drill chuck to grab onto).

Prospector, I'm a little slow too. Have you tried the cobalt bits for an ejection punch?

thanks,
CC

Should have said and ejection punch for the point forming die?

[teddyblu]

Customcutter: If you have a Fastenal store near you check for 01 or w1, they carry a few sizes.

[customcutter]

I think I made some progress today. I found another 1/2 X 20 tap in my tap drawer, and managed to cut threads about 1.25" into the bottom of the die. Tomorrow I'll cut the die body off of the main rod and tap it from the top. Then I can get busy figuring out the dimensions on the ejection punch.

I tried calling Grainger and Fastenal, but both were closed by the time I got in. I checked the Grainger price and they are the highest, Fastenal next, and the lowest was Enco with free shipping on orders over $29. They also have free shipping and 15% off right now on orders over $149. Codes are SHP827 and DIS827. Good till the end of the month IIRC.