commercial inverted HB wadcutters, anyone seen these?

[JoeTheMechanic]

wondering if anyone has seen these:
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/AMM368#
i came across them yesterday while browsing and it revived the idea for me. cant help but wonder if its a sign of the times, the result of a lack of available/affordable components. in my browsing over the years I've seen a few people here and there across the web saying " way back when people loaded inverted wadcutters for snubbies because hallowpoints where unreliable, but they cant hit anything more than ten yards away cause they tumble after that, blah blah blah"

I messed around with inverting wadcutters last year after finding a partial box of Winchester HBWC in a local gun shop. it wasn't a serious test, i really just wanted to play around with an old idea and see if it was as bad as they said. so i loaded them over the same charge of red dot i used with my TLWCs, and adjusted the seating die to increase oal and achieve the same seating depth with the longer boolit. using my 4" and 5" s&W k frames, i didn't experience the terrible accuracy that has been reported by internet sources concerning inverted wadcutters. I never used a rest, but i got the same +/-2" groups i always get at 15 yards and the impacts on the dirt pile out at 50 yards were right where they should be. but the best part is expansion. i filled the kitchen trash can up with water in the garage and popped a few rounds into it, perfect .69"-.73" lead mushrooms.

[captaint]

Many years ago, when I started handloading, I used to buy Hornady BHWC in boxes of 500. They were dead soft and shot really well in my Dan Wesson 15. For home defense, I loaded about 20 of them hollow base up. I used a relatively mild load in mag brass.
My gun club doesn't allow shooting into anything but the backstops - no water jugs or anything else for targets. Just paper. So, I never was able to see how they would perform, but I suspect they would have made a real mess if called upon to defend the home. Mike

[Doc_Stihl]

I've shot the Improved Minnie .50 cal inverted in my 500 S&W Encore with reasonable results. I never checked accuracy beyone 60 yards or so, but for a subsonic WHACKER It would make a mess.

[Janoosh]

I have used the inverted wadcutter in 357 mag in my Rossi lever rifle. I loaded them singly and they were accurate to 50 yds. I also swaged the inverted hollow base into a round nose hollow point simply by using an old RCBS round nose seater die. These are accurate to 25 yds. Endless possibilities using these boolits.

[LeMat]

I always figgered the centers would blow out if got 'em up over 900fps.

Or maybe that's only if they're loaded normally.

Anyone have this happen?

I find it kind of funny that they load 'em up to +P. Those things'll mushroom at 800. 'Course they are "Atomic".

[JoeTheMechanic]

I always figgered the centers would blow out if got 'em up over 900fps.

Or maybe that's only if they're loaded normally.

yea that's when their loaded normally. if you load them too hot the pressure pushes the skirt against the bore and creates drag, causes it to separate from the solid section of the boolit.

remember that the quoted 1000fps is probably from a 4 or 6 inch test barrel. from a snubbie y, ou would probably be between 800-900
"
edit* and another sign of the ammo shortage. i just noticed that buffalo bore is now offering hard cast DEWC, they say "It cuts/crushes a "cookie cutter", full diameter hole in human flesh just like it does on a paper target. It penetrates deeply (roughly 14 to 16 inches in human tissue) and its full diameter profile maximizes blood loss as it cuts and crushes (not slips or slides) its way through tissue."

[Janoosh]

When i first swaged them into a RNHP, yes, i had the boolit self destruct exiting the barrel. Also in mid air. I was pushing them too fast. If i kept the boolits at target velocity ( sorry, no chrono), they were accurate. I also had the boolit self destruct at 357 velocities when loaded base forward. This was soft target boolits, commercial cast.

[44Vaquero]

I first loaded my .38 S&W with inverted Hornady HBWC's about 20 years ago just for fun. They were absolutely devastating on raccoons and ground hogs as I recall. I also load my .32 magnum with inverted Hornady HBWC's. My grand father made a punch/die to swaging gas checks onto them to avoid the possibility of blowing out the center if driven faster. The are just as accurate anything else I have ever shot out of my Ruger SS!

The Grand Daddy of reloading Dean Grennell used to call them "Splunker's" because that's the sound they made striking things!

[dbosman]

Gas check the solid end.
There was a post about doing that, a couple of weeks ago.

[44Vaquero]

dbosman, It's not really that hard to do, you just need a point form nose punch to keep the cavity from collapsing. Hornady HBWC's are very soft, it does not require the same type force as cold forming the entire profile.

Unfortunately, I do not have any laying around to show you. I will make some more when I go to visit my Grandfather later this month.

[jonp]

I have a box of Hornady 200gr swc boolits that do not feed in my Kahr. I was going to shoot them all in my 45Colt but came up with the bright idea to turn them around and try them as a swc wc. Reduced the load of promo a little and they make nice round holes. Not sure what good they are but they work and it's something new.

[35remington]

Actually, Dean Grennel made his own swaged hollowbase wadcutters with the cavity to the fore and called them "Spelunkers" because they excavated caves of impressive size when they hit something.

"Spelunker" is the term for a person that likes to explore caves.

[1_Ogre]

For self defense 15yrds is a stretch. I use em at 10-15', and they do their job real nice.

[StrawHat]

Many years ago I loaded them as hollow points and shot a bunch of them. Expansion was impressive but penetration was lacking. I cast the DEWC a bit harder and loaded it to 900 fps and found it a good load.

[44Vaquero]

@ 35 Remington: The actual quote from The Gun Digest Book of the .45 By Dean Grennell (1989) is as follows:

"One such is a Hollow-point with a compound angle cavity I dreamed up some while ago and tentatively called the Spelunker--because, when it hits, it goes "Spelunk!" and excavates a cave in the process"

I know he also mentioned he go the idea from loading HBWC's backwards I just have not located the quote yet.

[Blammer]

somebody finally figured out how to market a manufacturing mistake.

[35remington]

44, thanks for confirming my version of events. I have the same publication. "Spelunker" (correct spelling) and the cave analogy were the the operative terms in naming his round.

[Cosmiceyes]

wondering if anyone has seen these:
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/AMM368#
i came across them yesterday while browsing and it revived the idea for me. cant help but wonder if its a sign of the times, the result of a lack of available/affordable components. in my browsing over the years I've seen a few people here and there across the web saying " way back when people loaded inverted wadcutters for snubbies because hallowpoints where unreliable, but they cant hit anything more than ten yards away cause they tumble after that, blah blah blah"

I messed around with inverting wadcutters last year after finding a partial box of Winchester HBWC in a local gun shop. it wasn't a serious test, i really just wanted to play around with an old idea and see if it was as bad as they said. so i loaded them over the same charge of red dot i used with my TLWCs, and adjusted the seating die to increase oal and achieve the same seating depth with the longer boolit. using my 4" and 5" s&W k frames, i didn't experience the terrible accuracy that has been reported by internet sources concerning inverted wadcutters. I never used a rest, but i got the same +/-2" groups i always get at 15 yards and the impacts on the dirt pile out at 50 yards were right where they should be. but the best part is expansion. i filled the kitchen trash can up with water in the garage and popped a few rounds into it, perfect .69"-.73" lead mushrooms.

I started buying 500 round bulk boxes to load up side down in the 80's.Still do it.Key-holing is a problem with most any factory +P loads in a 1 1/2-4 inch 38,and 44 special.The wad-cutters loaded normal to +P do not have this problem.Someone of engineering science degree explained it on another thread on here. I gather my information from Guns and Ammo circa 1980.It worked.The testing results were almost silver dollar size,and didn't exit the gel cavity.If you load them to slow or a excessive fast powder they will tumble.