Do I need to add something

[fecmech]

One thing I would do is pull a bullet from one of your loaded rounds and mic it. The 9MM is a tapered case and most 9MM expanders are designed for jacketed bullets and do not expand far enough into the case. If that is what's going on in your case you might want to buy a Lyman "M" die or something similar to expand the case and not size down your bullet when you seat it. I personally think this is one of the major causes of 9MM leading problems. As stated by previous posters the TL concept can be a problem in the 9MM although I have used it in the past successfully. Good luck.

[kcinnick]

I have used .358 sized bullets in my 9mm's before (mistake, didn't realize I had the wrong die in there, kept them for myself instead of selling) modern 9mm chambers are "generous", whenever I have a customer that has said they don't shoot lead in 9mm because of leading, I give them some coated bullets sized to .357, haven't had a complaint yet.

[el34]

How much tin? Where can tin be obtained? I have seen it on rotometals but I really don't know how to go about mixing it. When I cast my bullets I do it from a bottom pour, but if I'm just casting ingots I use a smelting pot I made and ladle it out into the ingots. My bottom pour is a 10 pound pot, I suppose I would do the mixing in it, it is a lot cleaner than the big pot.

The classic advice is to have 1% to 2% tin by weight. And that more than that does no extra good. If you plan to add it as you're casting it might be a little sketchy unless you know how much to add with each new ingot you toss in. I do a second melt after weighing the smelt results and testing the hardness. I add high-antimony and the 2% tin and make 'finished' ingots.

I shopped for tin and found if you have to buy retail then Rotometals was about the best I could find. Solder costs more. But if you can score scrap solder or pewter you're in luck.

Bhn 9 -11 WW's are ancient history. The only numbers I've encountered are aged Bhn 13.5 and 15.4.

I've heard that a couple of times but what I've been getting in N TX makes ingots in the 9.2 to 10.4 range. Of course that's just after the smelting so I guess after aging they can stiffen up a bit.

[John Boy]

As with most everyone else, I'm on a budget(meaning I have to clear it with the wife) as I collect more tools for this. I just have a big wish list!

Jimbo, if I may ... take the Mrs out to dinner and have a couple of martinis or her favorite alcoholic drink . Then mumble some sounds and quickly say - "Thanks Darling" Your budget problems are SOLVED!
Then read this ... From Ingot to Target: A Cast Bullet Guide for Handgunners

[WILCO]

I will let you know how this works out. As with most everyone else, I'm on a budget(meaning I have to clear it with the wife)....

Please do. I know about the budget thing.

[timberhawk]

If you want to mail me a few unlubed boolits, I'll test their hardness for you.
Let me know and I'll send you a PM with an address.

[3jimbo3]

If you want to mail me a few unlubed boolits, I'll test their hardness for you.
Let me know and I'll send you a PM with an address.

That sounds great to me if you don't care to do that. I plan to cast some tomorrow or Friday and I could send a few right out. Thanks for the help.

[3jimbo3]

Jimbo, if I may ... take the Mrs out to dinner and have a couple of martinis or her favorite alcoholic drink . Then mumble some sounds and quickly say - "Thanks Darling" Your budget problems are SOLVED!
Then read this ... From Ingot to Target: A Cast Bullet Guide for Handgunners

Oh no..... she can be real mean when she's drinking.lol

[timberhawk]

PM Sent

[timberhawk]

3jimbo3,

Okay, I got the nine bullets you sent me and have check them on an LBT Hardness Tester.

All of the bullets tested right at 20 BHN. COWW will not drop this hard unless they have been water dropped or heat treated. These are not particularly shiney, so I'm wondering if you water dropped them or heat treated them in some way.

Six of them weighted:
124.9
125.6
125.0
125.8
125.2
125.4

I miked the same six and got:
.3589 x .3597
.3594 x .3585
.3566 x .3578
.3560 x .3587
.3589 x .3587
.3591 x .3591

I did notice the bases and lube grooves seem a little rounded on all of the bullets, but not enough to cause any problems. Sizing will square these up and sharpen all of the edges.

I don't see any issues with the bullets as cast. Your bullets are plenty hard. Seems more like linotype than COWW and they are not undersized coming out of the mold.

I've had some issues in the past where my taper crimp die was cranked too low and was resizing the lead bullet during the crimp. Also, your expander die may not open the case enough and you may be resizing the bullet when you seat it. With bullets this hard, they may not obturate(?) to fill the rifling and allow gas cutting and leading.

You might try pulling the bullets from some loaded rounds and check to see if something is causing them to be resized too small during the loading process.

They seem to be okay as they come from the mold.

Anyone else???????

[Zymurgy50]

To get a rough estimate of the hardness of your alloy you could take an ingot of a known hardness and an ingot of your alloy, place a steel ball bearing between the two and squeeze them together in a vise (just enough to make a slight impression in both ingots). Then by some careful measurements of the size of the respective "dents" in the ingots, you can tell if your alloy is harder or softer than the known alloy.
The harder alloy will show a smaller depression.

[3jimbo3]

3jimbo3,

Okay, I got the nine bullets you sent me and have check them on an LBT Hardness Tester.

All of the bullets tested right at 20 BHN. COWW will not drop this hard unless they have been water dropped or heat treated. These are not particularly shiney, so I'm wondering if you water dropped them or heat treated them in some way.

Six of them weighted:
124.9
125.6
125.0
125.8
125.2
125.4

I miked the same six and got:
.3589 x .3597
.3594 x .3585
.3566 x .3578
.3560 x .3587
.3589 x .3587
.3591 x .3591

I did notice the bases and lube grooves seem a little rounded on all of the bullets, but not enough to cause any problems. Sizing will square these up and sharpen all of the edges.

I don't see any issues with the bullets as cast. Your bullets are plenty hard. Seems more like linotype than COWW and they are not undersized coming out of the mold.

I've had some issues in the past where my taper crimp die was cranked too low and was resizing the lead bullet during the crimp. Also, your expander die may not open the case enough and you may be resizing the bullet when you seat it. With bullets this hard, they may not obturate(?) to fill the rifling and allow gas cutting and leading.

You might try pulling the bullets from some loaded rounds and check to see if something is causing them to be resized too small during the loading process.

They seem to be okay as they come from the mold.

Anyone else???????

thank you for testing those for me.

yes those were water dropped. could that be what caused the rounded lube groves and base?
when I fill the mold, I fill it completely and have an appropriate sprue on top. or could I need the get my melt a little hotter? they fly good, and I hold good groups with them. I just have the leading problem, after about a hundred rounds I have to clean. getting the lead out isn't all that tough, but I takes some scrubbing.

once again thank you for testing them