Question about Small Motor to run lathe SLOWLY when threading

[DoctorBill]

Here is what the Powered end of the Weslo Tread Mill looked like
with the Plastic Cover off.....Animal Hair coating everything !



I took the entire thing completely apart on my driveway pad.
Lot of nice tubing, bolts, a big black fiber fiber board that the tread slid
over, a tough tread strip, plastic feet and rollers.
Here are the goodies I wanted....



This PC Board goes for $133 on the Internet -
http://www.wesloparts.com/diagram_pa...agram_id=16555


The Input to the Controller (the "Console") is here and it looks like a bitch
to try to simplify.....then again - it might be a nice Lathe Control Input Panel !

The Console goes for $114 - http://www.wesloparts.com/diagram/16555


Here is the Repairman's Guide Spec Sheet (Front & Back) which was in a plastic bag taped
inside the Console.....lot of nice information for anyone interested....





Notice the Specs for the Motor !

Here is the Label on the D/C Motor (I Do not see the ubiquitous "Made In China")

This Motor goes for $157 - http://www.wesloparts.com/diagram/16555


Knew it had to be SOMEWHERE ! On the side of the Controller PC Assembly...



Here is the Motion Sensor Magnet for the Tachometer - on the Belt end of
the Ball Bearing Tread Roller where the sensor is mounted.



Not too shabby for $37.50 plus WA State Sales Tax...... !
I know it works 'cause I made them plug it in at Goodwill and made it speed up & slow down.

Now - can someone tell me how to get that Fly Wheel off the Motor Shaft w/o
boogering up the motor ?
I will need to put some sort of "Screen" around the Commutator to keep Lathe Swarf
from making my life miserable....

DoctorBill

[JMtoolman]

Bill, why don't you just machine a larger V belt for the headstock and a smaller one for your motor. Just make a 2 to 1 reduction for the diameters and add them to your stack of V belt drives that are already there. 60 rpm is really slow enough for threading, that is what my lathe is. That way you don't really modify your drives. The toolman.

[HollowPoint]

I'm just guessing but, it looks from the photo that the pulley is just press-fit with a key-way to keep it from spinning loose.

HollowPoint

[DoctorBill]

I brought all the Components from the Tread Mill into my "workshop" and
cut the motor mount out of the frame to hold it.



Put the Ground Wire to the Controller frame, coupled everything up (except
the tachometer sensor) and turned it on.....OH MY GOD !

It works ! So quiet that I have to look to see if the motor spins !

Now comes the "FUN PART" - adapting it to my ENCO Lathe.

But first - nap time.....

DoctorBill

[Dutchman]

I think this would be a default victory of my "sewing machine motor won't work" position leading you to owing me a beer, hey?

Dutch

[DoctorBill]

Dutchman - you are dealing with a Stubborn Belgian here......My wife has a odd brand
Sewing Machine she says I can take the motor off of.....so maybe I'll try just to be a butt.
If it won't work, I'll fess up to it and you can PM your address for a letter with the cost
of your favorite Beer.....how's that ?

Back to this D/C Motor.
The Fly Wheel/Pulley looks to be threaded on. I can see the beginnings of threads on the
Motor Shaft. Methinks 'tis a Left 'anded Thread, What !?



The back end of the Motor has four Cardinal position (90°) indentations - possible from a
clamp used to immobilize the shaft when the Fly Wheel was screwed on.

Any suggestions ? I don't want to booger up the motor shaft on the back end by
the commutator. Probably has a thread locking compound applied when made.....
Acetone Soak....?

Later on....I put some Sili-Kroil on the threads with the motor standing up....bubbles.
If I clamp the back end of the motor shaft in my vice and turn the Fly Wheel clockwise,
that ought to come off....or would I chance bending the shaft ?
The shaft at the nether end measures 0.315" (5/16ths).

NEVER MIND - I decided to "Go For It" and grabbed the back shaft with my trusty old
Gas Pliers and rotated the Fly Wheel Clockwise..came right off like warm butter on a
old bandage.....



0.491" x 13 tpi (Thread gauged it). 0.5" x 13 TPI Left handed.



I wonder if I could Lathe a cut on the backside and remove the Flywheel part ?

DoctorBill

[DoctorBill]

I removed the 3 step Aluminum and the toothed gear behind it
from the Drive Shaft of my ENCO 9x20 Lathe motor.

The shaft had a screw holding the pulley to the shaft, then has a Key.

With some heat applied (Butane Torch) it came off complaining all
the way with creaks and pings - looks like they glued the shaft.






DoctorBill

[Whiterabbit]

looking forward to this. My Sieg mill has a DC motor adjustable all the way to ZERO RPM via dial, and it is truly sweet.

My Sieg C6 lathe is all AC and I have to flip belts. Still only 150-2400 rpm capable. What did I do to thread steel last time? Ran it at 150 RPM.

A dial to go down to zero would be so awfully nice. And the 2.5HP motors are on ebay for 20 bucks? That's just crazy.

-S

[trevj]

While you are well on your way to a DC Motor conversion, I would suggest some things to keep in mind.

Those motors run a bit warm, so you will want to account for getting some air through it. The fan blades on the flywheel you took off, take care of that. They are arranged to draw the air through the motor and eject it at some velocity.
You are going to need some kind of fan on that motor.the one it came with is the easiest one available, but a muffin type fan may work too. One more thing to wire in, though.

I suggest that you use that flywheel, and the belt that came with it. Or find a longer belt of the same type. Dig around online and you will find the specs for the grooves for the multigroove belts. Easy enough to cut with a parting type tool. You can make a pulley any size you want. Or just run the belt around the outside of the larger pulley, same as if it were a flat belt. It will work fine that way too.

I suggest also, that you gear the motor output through a jackshaft to give you he ability to keep the motor running at a pretty good turn, while the lathe runs slow, rather than relying on the speed controller to keep it running steady while the torque comes and goes while cutting. The treadmill motors can surge a bit at slow speeds. This is less of a problem if you can keep the revs up and steady.

Best sped controllers are off the really old treadmills, that use a simple pot for the speed control. Then all you need to deal with is on-off, faster-slower, rather than having to push buttons for all the functions. But run what ya got. It'll work. You may want to put a guard over the buttons that switch through the 'training cycles' that are programmed in to the software on the board.
The surplus places had a lot of treadmill motors and controllers for cheap a few years back. Once everyone started using them, the price went up. But buying new ones will always be expensive, compared to keeping an eye out for free treadmills etc.

Me, I think I'd have started out with a jackshaft on the bench behind the lathe with a couple multisize pulleys on it, maybe about a 3:1 or 4:1 reduction at the slow speed, and about 1:1 at the top end. That would have given good torque and slow speed for threading, with a fast way to switch back when not needed. Worked for South Bend, and almost all the other makers of bench top metal lathes for a long time.
I don't doubt that the tach function is programmed to show how fast the belt is moving in mph or kmh. You may be able to use it to some good, or it may just be in the way. Dunno if it is needed for the speed control or not.


Cheers
Trev

[DoctorBill]

Yes....I am wonering if I can use the Pulley I just pulled off the A/C motor
on the D/C motor itself. Might take some drilling out. Put a 'flat' on the
D/C Motor's shaft for a set screw.



The shaft on the rear end of the D/C Motor, by the commutator is 8mm.
I could put a small Aluminum Fan Blade on that.

If I cut some grooves into the toothed pulley on the back side,
I could use either belt.

I'd prefer to use the toothed belt that the Lathe came with - no slippage.

I may have to put the pulley BACK on the A/C motor just to turn a NEW
pulley for the D/C Motor !

I can use the larger portion of the D/C Motor Shaft to put the old Pulley on it
with a set screw - maybe turn it around, also.
I'll have to think about it - that hurts my old 70 year old brain....

Lot to do - spring time and the grass grows so darned fast.
I hate mowing an acre of lawn every week or sooner !
I am also reshaping the back bumper (dented to pieces) on my 1989
Jeep Comanche pioneer 4x4 that I bought this last winter.
Loctite "Extend" Rust Neutralizer followed by Black RustOleum.

STILL can't find that NRA - Life Member thing to put under my Handle
on the left side !

DoctorBill.

WhiteRabbit - sent you a "PM".....

[DoctorBill]

I lightly sanded the A/C motor shaft and deburred the shaft end and key way.
I love the Chinese workmanship - machine it and get it out the door !
Ah well, it makes it cheaper than the name brands.....

The 'Key' itself for the shaft was full of burrs and had eaten out a huge chunk of the
Aluminum Pulley when they pressed it on !
Now I can slide the pulley off and on easily.

I had boogered up the Shaft End Bolt Hole Threads with the Pulley Extractor and had
to utilize my Metric Tap (6mmx1.0) to clean the threads up.
Lucky that I have Foreign Cars - put in a LONGER 6mmx1.0 Bolt - theirs was short and
holding on to the Pulley by maybe 3 threads !

I save everything.....all metric nuts and bolts I get off of any parts - Jars of them.

The Lathe is back together and now I have to figure out exactly what I am
going to do as regards the Pulley for the D/C Motor and how to fix it to the Lathe.

Of course I'll need a Tachometer using a variable speed D/C Motor ! See next post.

DoctorBill

[DoctorBill]

The Tachometer Business with the magnetic pickup.........
I wonder if an automotive tachometer could be used - that counts pulses ?

But then - Lookie here !
Handheld Laser No Contact Tachometer for $15 ($1.60 Shipping) from China !

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Handheld-Dig...item5aed8fdaf7

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Digital-...item3f1f55202c

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tachometer-H...1ad8dd&vxp=mtr

They also sell these kinds of Tachometers to measure the rpm of Model Airplane Engines.

For that price I just bid on one !

Might be able to tell me how fast my head is spinning !...or my Milling bit....
you just gotta know that !

DoctorBill

[KCSO]

I once had a Smithy with the same problem so I took an old wheeled handle from an old leather sewing machine I found at a scrap yard and fitted a hand crank to the end of the lathe shaft. Slide it in and tighten it down and turn the lathe by hand to thread. Worked just fine.

[DoctorBill]

Bought these at McGuire Bearing today.



Haven't yet decided - Thread to 0.5" x 13 TPI LH Thread for the threaded portion of
the shaft or bore it out to 17mm for the back portion of the D/C Motor shaft.

DoctorBill

[trevj]

Make the part fit the work, not the work fit the part.

You can get another pulley if you miss the dimensions. Once you make the shaft on the motor too small, yer done.

Ideal would be to cut the thread in to the pulley, to match what you have on the motor.
I would offer that you consider filing or milling a couple flats for the set screws, once all else is done, it'll make removal a bunch easier, as the set screws will raise a burr around themselves otherwise, when torqued down.

Cheers
Trev

[Cane_man]

DB you nutty old fart what heck are you doing?!

just use belts and gears to reduce the speed of lathe shaft...

[Whiterabbit]

That was my opinion as well. UNTIL

I got the mill with the continuously variable speed control. 2 speed transmission, 'low' and 'high' gears, both capable of taking the spindle rotation speed down to zero with a quick flick of the wrist on a large pot.

If I ever mess with my C6, the only way it will be acceptable is by making it instantaneously change speed via large pot, all the way down to zero rpm. For sure.

It's just TOO NICE compared to flipping belts!

[DoctorBill]

Different Strokes for Different Folk.
Whatever Floats YOUR Boat.
A Different Kettle of Fish.
March to Your Own Drummer.
No Two Machinists are Alike.
More Than One Way to Skin a Cat.
Tomato - Tomaato.
One Man's Meat is Another Man's Poison.
etc....etc...etc

Besides....it is yet ANOTHER Project to keep me from going insane !

I COULD just sit around watching CNN or the Oprah Winfree Show or
Ellen DeGeneris or SpongeBob Square Pants.

DoctorBill

[Cane_man]

LOL! db is da man, whatever turns your screw or blows your hair back

keep up the good work, looks great... truth be told is that i just have lathe envy

[DoctorBill]

I like that - Whatever turns your screw !

Whatever threads your nut.....Whatever fits your pistol (John Wayne).

I am having a dispute with my Machinist friend.....says threading that pulley
is not a good way to go - the set screws come loose.

He wants me to take apart my nice new D/C Motor and turn the shaft down to
1/2 Inch and mill in a keyway slot.

Says any standard pulley will then fit it.....I know he is right.

BUT.....I wouldn't take my nice new motor apart - I'd probably BOOGER it up.

So if he does it for me.......

He also wants to put a shoulder on the shaft so the pulley doesn't migrate into the housing.....
He is so fastidious and laughed when I told him that I'm too chicken S___ to take
my nice, beautiful D/C Motor apart and put the shaft on a Lathe !
The Commutator is all nice and shiny and unused and unboogered.

My biggest concern is keeping Swarf off that commutator !

DoctorBill