S&W 500 load assistance

[slixxster]

I've just picked up a new S&W 500 8 3/8, love it, I've been reloading for smaller calibers, 9mm, .40, .45.. etc.. never a 500. I've got some Rainer 300gr plated HP for target/less recoil, but i've yet come to find any load data for. I have the following powder on hand, AA#9, LiL-Gun, W296. I've called Rainer and they havent gottan to me, so I've stubbed across this site and wonder if anyone can assist with some load data.

Any guidance will be greatly appreciated.

thanks

[Wickyd]

http://reloadammo.com/500sw.htm
Try this

[fcvan]

My neighbor bought one of those beauties, what fun! He has bought about factory 200 rounds to build up his supply. Anyway, I'm casting the Lee 501-440 RF and we intend to launch that at between 1000-1200 fps. Yes, you can ally go a lot bigger and badder with that behemoth pistol. The CorBon loads at full throttle aren't an all day shooter load but I guarantee the smile lasted all day.

[44man]

http://reloadammo.com/500sw.htm
Try this

I also thank you for that site. My friend bought the S&W, I will have to work loads with him.
Slixxter, welcome to the site.

[41 mag fan]

Lil Gun so far, seems to be the best producer for me thru my 500 using 440gr casts.
Slixxter if you reload heavy charges watch to see if you get whats called an auto index.
44man I believe, started a thread about this problem once, and I got to looking at my 500 more closely, and noticed the heavier my charges, I started having auto indexing problems.
If you do have that problem, the cylinder spring needs to be replaced with a stronger one. S&W will do that for you, just tell them you are shooting 440 Corbons.

[Paulinski]

I found LiL'Gun would heat the gun too quick.

Replaced it in favor of H110

[slixxster]

Thanks all, i was reading post and copper plated bullets tend to lead, I was specitcal about using w296 or lilgun which will push that 300gr Rainier plated to high of a fps. I was looking for around 1300fps-1500fps.

41mag - thanks, can you explain more of the auto index? I've loaded some Hornady 500gr XTP with w296 and was going to test when i have to time to go out.

[44man]

I can help on the cylinder. A few of the S&W guns, even back to the model 29 would have the cylinder stop move out of the notches and the cylinder would rotate backwards from torque. It is caused by inertia of the cylinder stop. Some have a spring too weak in that part.
Some 29's would just go click for the second shot.
The X frame has much more inertia and torque plus high pressures. The cylinder can turn backwards to the original chamber that was under the firing pin, pressure against the primer from in the shell can bounce the hammer back far enough so it can ignite any round in the chamber. The gun can double as it is coming back in recoil.
It is an easy fix, just a stronger spring in the stop. Not all guns have the problem, I think S&W fixed it.
The safe thing to do is to leave the chamber under the firing pin empty so you can see if the cylinder comes unlocked and turns. It will not double if you do this.
If you shoot and the next shot is a click, get a new spring from S&W, it is an easy job to change it yourself. You can mark the cylinder with a magic marker too and see if it moved.
Check fired primers too and see if you have a double strike on any of them or on the brass base.
You should not have a problem with lighter loads but if you move up in weight, do the check.
Lil Gun burns too HOT!

[snuffy]

Caution with 'lil' gun. It's been said to erode the cylinder gap at the back of the barrel. Seems it's real hot right at the gap, burning grains of powder acting like tiny cutting torches.

This was the downfall of WW-630 powder back in the seventies. Cost me a re-barrel on my 44 SBH. Cylinder gap would tear my pants leg when shooting prone creedmore position for silly wet matches.

[41 mag fan]

Thanks all, i was reading post and copper plated bullets tend to lead, I was specitcal about using w296 or lilgun which will push that 300gr Rainier plated to high of a fps. I was looking for around 1300fps-1500fps.

41mag - thanks, can you explain more of the auto index? I've loaded some Hornady 500gr XTP with w296 and was going to test when i have to time to go out.

44man answered your question better than I could begin to describe. He's the one that brought it to my attention, as I was having problems with my 500 auto indexing, and couldn't figure out why, beyond I thought the recoil was more pronounced than I thought, causing me to hold the trigger whereby causing the auto index. It wasn't until I loaded into the med to hot ranges i had this happen, but for me it was always on the first shot, whether it was me or someone else shooting it.

I can help on the cylinder. A few of the S&W guns, even back to the model 29 would have the cylinder stop move out of the notches and the cylinder would rotate backwards from torque. It is caused by inertia of the cylinder stop. Some have a spring too weak in that part.
Some 29's would just go click for the second shot.
The X frame has much more inertia and torque plus high pressures. The cylinder can turn backwards to the original chamber that was under the firing pin, pressure against the primer from in the shell can bounce the hammer back far enough so it can ignite any round in the chamber. The gun can double as it is coming back in recoil.
It is an easy fix, just a stronger spring in the stop. Not all guns have the problem, I think S&W fixed it.
The safe thing to do is to leave the chamber under the firing pin empty so you can see if the cylinder comes unlocked and turns. It will not double if you do this.
If you shoot and the next shot is a click, get a new spring from S&W, it is an easy job to change it yourself. You can mark the cylinder with a magic marker too and see if it moved.
Check fired primers too and see if you have a double strike on any of them or on the brass base.
You should not have a problem with lighter loads but if you move up in weight, do the check.
Lil Gun burns too HOT!

Jim,....you answered it way better than i would of ever have!!
Yes Lil Gun burns hot, but for me it's been so far the best powder i've found for my groups.

Caution with 'lil' gun. It's been said to erode the cylinder gap at the back of the barrel. Seems it's real hot right at the gap, burning grains of powder acting like tiny cutting torches.

This was the downfall of WW-630 powder back in the seventies. Cost me a re-barrel on my 44 SBH. Cylinder gap would tear my pants leg when shooting prone creedmore position for silly wet matches.

I never knew that snuffy....thank you! I'll remember that issue occurring with Lil Gun.

[44man]

Everyone was blaming a double trigger pull under recoil, even S&W. We took pictures and movies that showed no trigger finger problems. A marked cylinder would turn.
Holding the trigger back should not unlock the cylinder.
I fixed several 29's when I did not have new springs by sticking a tiny lock tumbler spring inside the original spring to stiffen it. Worked like a charm.
I understand S&W now offers a stronger replacement spring.
Another thing I found was shooting boolits at 300 gr and up in the 29, .44, the recoil would peen the front end of unlocking pin in the center of the cylinder so the crane would not open. The pin was too soft.
S&W came out with the enhanced model that should address the issues but if you have an older 29, stay with 265 gr and below boolits.
It was not pressure, just part inertia.
Fine guns with teething problems. S&W never thought anyone would go over 250 gr in the .44.
X frame problems also depends on how the gun is allowed to recoil. A looser or weaker hold will let the gun come back faster then if held very tight. Still just a tiny spring!
Hammer bounce can be reduced with a stronger hammer spring but it can't be stopped. It is there, even in SA's.
If you want to see, take movies of the guns and watch hammers. The firing pins take a huge punch from the primer.
Remember the Colt SAA's that went full auto when the pin punctured the primers?
That had to be fun!

[ku4hx]

Lyman's third edition of their Pistol and Revolver handbook has a section devoted to the 500 S&W Magnum as well as load data. Ramshot, Alliant, Hodgdon and Accurate all have load data. Accurate and Hodgdon have more than the other two.

[Whiterabbit]

Even teh 460 Xframes will show the rotation problem. Just another tick on the list of why SA (bfr) is better

Thanks all, i was reading post and copper plated bullets tend to lead, I was specitcal about using w296 or lilgun which will push that 300gr Rainier plated to high of a fps. I was looking for around 1300fps-1500fps. .

use trailboss or AA#9. According to LEE 2nd edition, you can go to about 50% casefill for a reduced load with AA#9 and be safe. In my experience, you need a strong grip on the bullet to download #9 or else you get hangfires. For me, it wa about 60% case fill for a very nice and comfy to shoot reduced load. Too comfy. But if I used soft lead, I got hangfires. gas checks were needed so the case had something to grip on.

So I suggest GOOD case tension, seating deep to ensure as much drive band is engaged with the case as possible. moderate to low or no crimp, I just dont like crimp for reduced loads, I personally think they dont uncrimp and size the bullet down. Terrible accuracy. I guarantee that for trailboss, but have no proof with reduced AA#9.

Primer doesnt seem to affect ignition with reduced AA#9 nearly as much as ensuring the initial burn generates "enough pressure" to not fizzle or whatever tis doing that causes a hang fire. I never got a squibb, but I got some hang fires in the .25-.5 second time line which is of course an ETERNITY. But never when using a gas check or a sturdy alloy which to me is very clear sign that increasing initial pressure solves it.

[Whiterabbit]

your other option, and I'm darn sure this will work wonders too, is use your H110 and cut the cases. Like in half. cut teh cases down, fill with H110 and seat bullet.

It's like shooting a ruger-only 45 colt in a 460 S&W. That's should do the trick nicely.

Personally, I'd sooner load the AA#9 or buy some trailboss.