I want to learn machining and gunsmithing

[oldred]

One of the thing I was able to do was build a rifling machine from scratch with no plans, just a picture in my minds eye of what I wanted.

Being right in the middle of building such a machine right now for ML barrels I know what's involved and that one line speaks volumes about your natural talent, my hat's off to you on that one for sure!

[nekshot]

nothing builds confidence like fixing something . For 45 years I have been taking guns apart fixing what I could (never found one I could not fix), found my niche is more in the wood side and built a neat duplicating machine. 10 years ago I bought a emco Austrian maximat v10-p, a mill drill identical to grizzly go705 and tooling for around 1200.oo. I had the torch and welding stuff for many years.Bluing I chose the belgian and pinkington route. I say this that you can do this on your own by reading, asking questions and trying things with your own stuff. I have never been stomped and needed a pro to bail me out but I came close more than once. I am not a gunsmith but judging the stuff that I hear and see in my area I more than qualify This is my hobby and passion!

[HollowPoint]

It's evident from the replies that everyone has their preferred method of going about reaching their goals.

In my case, I started with the cheap little Harbor Freight bench-top mill and lathe. (and a couple of 20 percent discount coupons) Although the word, "Learned" is possibly a misnomer in this case, I "Learned" how to use a lathe and mill by buying and using these cheap little Chinese made toys.

It's true that they're far from the ideal machinery we would like to have but, don't under estimate the capability; especially when you have NO machinery to begin with. I was able to make alot of pretty cool stuff with these cheesy little Harbor Freight toys that many folks look down on.

I am "Self-Taught." Only in hind sight am I able to agree with others on this thread when they suggest some kind of schooling or mentoring. When you're "Self-Taught," you basically have an ignorant person as your teacher but, if you really want to learn, you have to start somewhere. Before I got these tools, any gunsmithing I did was done with hack-saws, metal files and alot of foul language.

I still own and use the little Harbor Freight mini-mill but, I have since upgraded to a CNC Hobby mill. I sold off the mini-lathe and upgraded to a slightly larger bench-top model. I'm presently in the process of tracking down a good used SouthBend lathe and if I don't come across one soon I'll just keep saving up for the Gunsmithing lathe I originally started saving up for.

The upgrades are done in incremental steps. The more you learn about using metal working machinery, the more you realize that maybe it's time to upgrade. For me, the actual purchases also hinged on wether I could afford it or not. I bought the Harbor Freight machines because that's all I could afford.

In an ongoing effort to stay out of debt, I don't spend money I don't have. If I want or need a new machine, I save up for it. Some times it takes years to save up.

HollowPoint

[W.R.Buchanan]

Cavalrymedic: I hope you haven't bought a machine yet simply because you don't know what to buy or how to use it. It is a big msitake to buy something like this with the intention of learning how to use it, only to find out later it is not what you need.

Many here will give you suggestions of which machine is the best for their work, but their work is not your work. It is all pointless drivel until you understand what you are trying to accomplish, and learn how to do it.

Once you learn what you want to do you can then go about tooling up to do it. Being a machinist, is not being a gunsmith. It helps but there is so much more to it than that.

Pat Sweeny has a real nice book about gunsmithing. He's fairly well known in the Gunsmithing world and writes columns for G&A and has for many years. IN his book he doesn't even recommend buying a milling machine citing most gunsmith type jobs can be done on a drill press with several jigs and fixtures. He's right!

I have gone down this road before. I actually own a working machine shop, (which I should be in making money right now!)

Learn how,,, then as you need them, aquire the tools.

The other road I went down was learning to Fly. I went and bought an Airplane. I really wanted an airplane, afterall I was a airplane mechanic in the AF so I got what I thought I wanted,,, a 1947 Cessna 140. Great little airplane for flying around in circles. But it damn sure wasn't what I needed. Very, very, expensive mistake! Selling a used airplane is far worse than selling a used boat. It took over a year and I lost my ****! Hell, I lost my **** just keeping it for two years. I spent nearly $20k on learning to fly and "nearly" getting my license. My friend rented planes and got his license in two months. He had <$3k in it.

What I actually needed was a "RENTED Cessna 150" that someone else had to keep and maintain.

You don't need a lathe and a mill. You need to "learn how to use a lathe and a mill," and a drill press, and files, and screwdrivers, and hammers, and chisels ETC ETC. Best to practice on someone elses machines.

If you are really serious about this, then you need to find a job at a local machine shop, or go to a gunsmithing school and learn the craft.

You will see after one week how right I am about this.

Randy

[oldred]

Cavalrymedic: The other road I went down was learning to Fly.Randy

I can relate to that one! Mine was a 1968 Cessna 150 and the two happiest days of my life was the day I bought it and the day I sold that money pit!

Sorry about getting off topic.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Old Red: I did love the thing, but it was kind of like having a really hot crazy girlfriend.

Fun at first but soon realizing that the cons outwieghed the pro's,,,

and then finally realizing you can't wait to see her leave, cuz she looks so good walking away!

Randy

[dudits]

i have to agree with all that have mentioned having a mentor with time to give you hands on time.
i learned to blow glass by myself. many years spent figuring out things, that someone could have showed me in a few days.
there is also natural gift and learned gift.

[jmorris]

I think you want both.

When I started, the friend/mentor told me that a lathe was the only machine capable to reproduce itself.

I can't say that this is in fact these days but they are more versatile, IF you have a lot of time for set up. This might lead you to a 3 in one machine but then setup is even longer for any given operation.

If I were a "new guy" I would start with a lathe. Pretty hard to od thread round parts, for example with a non CNC mill. Also a CNC mill, while being great to spit out a lot of the same parts, is a pain for one part (at least if it is a simple one).

W.R. is correct, it will take you a life time to "forest gump" yourself toward the knowledge that someone else has already learned. There is a lot more "tricks" to it than just clamping a hunk of metal into something and hitting the button.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Love it when people say "well why don't we just CNC it." They have no clue, and they figure that a CNC machine is just like a Replicator from Star Trek. You just put a piece of material in and push the green button,,,,, NOT!

What people don't realize is that you have to tell a CNC machine B]EVERY SINGLE MOVE TO MAKE FROM BEGINNING TO END[/B] There is no magic program that makes the part for you. You have to tell it what to do.

IN order to do that,,, You must first know how to make parts!

It is not prudent to learn the basics of how to make parts on an automated machine. You do that on manual machines, then you take that knowledge and apply it to making parts on a CNC.

My whole point here is you need to learn before you buy. And it is best to learn on Someone Elses Machines. Then you at least have a chance of buying what you need to do what you want because, hopefully, you will know how to do what you want.

It took me 7 years of working shops before I really understood what I really needed to open a machine shop. I did that in my garage, and I had alot of help from friends with aquiring equipment. I also did it at night after I worked all day at my Day Job! I even got work from my day job.

My first Real Machine was a Bridgeport Mill that I bought from a friend for $2000 specifically to make custom folding knives. I got the machine set up and running in about 3 weeks in my 1 car garage. Then he started feeding me work. I have never to this day, nearly 30 years later, made a folding knife. I have a machine shop instead.

I also already had two knife grinding machines that I built myself, two drill presses, and air compressor, and many power and hand tools before I got that mill.

That same friend "gave me" An older Hardinge Chucker shortly there after with the stipulation that I would pay him for it when I made enough money to do so. 3 years later I gave him $2300 for that machine.

I have another friend who had worn out that same Hardinge Chucker twice before it ever left Statham Industries. Since he knew my machine better than I did I had him come in and make parts on that machine for many years before his back gave out. He could stand in front of that machine for 8 hours strait and crank out parts. You don't learn how to do that in a few minutes, and after 25 years of running that machine I'm good for about 1 hour max!

Lots to this, and that's why I emphatically suggest that you learn before you buy some *** that is not going to do what you want.

Randy

[John Taylor]

Being a full time gunsmith I get asked a lot about getting into the smithing business , Standard answer is " don't quit your day job". For me being a gunsmith was a hobby for many years and I had most of what I needed to go into it full time, two lathes, two mills and lots of other tools. Then I got the push when my job went away and I had to pay bills. A night coarse at a collage om machining might be a good place to start. I lucked out many years ago and there was a gunsmithing coarse at the local collage, I took it so I could use their bluing tanks. Problem was the other students found out I was a machinist and used up some of my time doing work for them.

[BigJohn8705]

I don't believe it was said yet but I was just looking at the gunsmithing classes that the NRA offers. They fill up quick so you would have to plan for next year. The ones I was looking at out of NC told you what tools and supplies you will need for the course and they range from 3 days to 2 weeks.

[oldred]

The best part about this is that even if the gunsmithing part does not work out home machining is probably the most rewarding hobby you can get into, the sky's the limit and a lot of times it will actually pay for itself or even become profitable. I bought my lathe to restore some old farm tractors and quickly graduated to gun parts but the guns/gun parts is just a hobby while the tractor parts quickly became a part time job that actually paid for the lathe in a few months.

[257]

don't by a cnc first i just retired from 40+ years in the machining trades job ,tool and die and mold work. one of my last jobs was running a machining line 15 cnc machines conveyers selfteaching 7 axis robots point being there ideal candate for a job was 40+years old with at least 10 years of manuel machining exp. they said they could hire young guys that new programing but when things didn't work they didn't know why or how to fix it as far as info go to smart flix.com they have a set of vidieos one on lathe one on mills these are very good if you rent them when you get them copy them then you have them for referance. but the best thing is to get a machine and start making little things for yourself have a good one 257