My nose riders don't.

[rbuck351]

I have 3 so called nose rider 30 cal molds, 2 Lees and a Lyman. The largest nose of the three is the .312 Lee mold with a nose of .298. The other Lee and the lyman are .296 and .295. Do I have to order a custom mold to get a nose that is actually .300? Do you folks have nose rider molds that fit? I'm using COWWs, do I need to modify my mix or am I the only one that gets molds that are way undersize?

[9.3X62AL]

I ran a bit of a test with two of my 30 caliber moulds using 92/6/2 alloy some time back. Lyman #311291 drop-poured from my RCBS furnace into warmed blocks at 725* gave .300" x .312" results. Lee 312-185/same drill gave .3015" x .313". In both moulds when I contact-poured I picked up about .0005" in all dimensions.

Heating the alloy to 850* showed between .0005"-.0007" of SHRINKAGE/CONTRACTION from the above figures, under the same procedures. Lacking an electronic scale at the time, I didn't weight-sort any of these, but my "default" casting temp since that time with 92/6/2 has become 675*-700* with just about all moulds, regardless of block material.

There is at least as much art as there is science to this hobby craft.

[cbrick]

Al is correct that casting too hot can cause more shrinkage as the boolit cools but I can assure you it won't be nearly .005". Going to a high Sb alloy can increase diameters but again I can assure you it won't be nearly .005".

Are you using calipers to make your measurements?

I have about 20 30 caliber molds and several of them are bore riders, none of the noses cast nearly that small. The smallest one is a SAECO that casts a .299" nose, .295"-.296" is mighty small for a 30 cal mold, something just doesn't sound right that you have 3 casting that small.

Rick

[pdawg_shooter]

I paper patch and I have lapped all my "nose rider" so the nose section is the same diameter as my size to diameter.
ie. .301/.304 for my 30cals. Then I can patch full length.

[Larry Gibson]

I'm using COWWs, do I need to modify my mix or am I the only one that gets molds that are way undersize?

Almost all complaints of undersize bullets from moulds are from using straight COWWs. The moulds are cut to produce nominal bullet dimensions with an alloy containing more tin than COWWs has. Many batches of COWWs actually have very little tin. Add 2% tin to your COWWs, cast at 700 - 735 degrees, get the pour into the mould as quick as possible. This is especially necessary with the heavier bore riders with long noses. the alloy begins to cool and solidify as soon as it enters the mould so the alloy must remain hot enough for the alloy to continue to push it into the mould. the continual pressure from a large pouring of the sprue keeps the temp and pressure up for a complete fill. Thus be very generous with the sprue to include run off. Let your cast bullets age 7 - 10 days for final hardness and dimensions.

Larry Gibson

[cbrick]

I agree 110% with everything Larry said but (there's always a "but" isn't there) .005" is a bunch, a whole lot, about a mile. Tin will help of course but no one will be more surprised than me if anything even close to .005" is gained. I can't help but wonder if there isn't a problem with the measuring since this is 3 molds the OP is talking about.

Rick

[saint_iverson]

Are you measuring the dimensions with cal's or mic's?

[runfiverun]

5 thousandths just ain't doable.
maybe 1, more than likely 1/2 thou.
if I had a 298 pouring nose i'd look to lap it out or send it back with a note and a couple of boolits and discuss the issue with the mold maker.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I have yet to load and shoot any of the following yet, but here is my findings of Lee 30 cal molds purchased new in 2010 and 2011.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...sed&highlight=

[atr]

Larry is right on....add some tin !
I use old cut up pewter as my additive and diameter bumps up nicely
I doubt if you can get 0.005 increase,,,my experience has been to gain 0.002
atr

[longbow]

First, have you checked the calibration of whatever you are measuring with to make sure you are getting correct readings/

Second, have you inserted the nose/bore rider portion into the muzzle of your gun?

If the nose is snug fit with light to tighter fit it should be okay.

As others have said, those numbers look awfully small. Having said that, I have had Lyman moulds of recent purchase cast 0.002" undersize not 0.005" but still not acceptable.

If you are sure your numbers are right, I would send the moulds back if they cast any more than 0.0015" undersize. I can accept that alloy and temperature can affect diameter by a thou or so but beyond that it is an undersize mould.

Longbow

[rbuck351]

Ok. A little back ground. I spent about 20 years in engine rebuild shops where I rebuilt auto engines and the internal parts. I can consistantly measure to .0001 and have good mics. I also checked the noses in the 2 guns I want to use these boolits. One an H&R 30/30 is a little looser at the muzzle than the H&S Precision barreled 308Win But all boolits noses range from loose to very loose in the muzzels. Both barrels are low mileage. I just came up from the loading room where I just tried several of the suggestions. I'm using a Lee bottom pour, I added 2% tin to the cowws, dropped the temp to 700 and stuck the mold against the spout with throttle full open, dropped the mold a little and poured lead all over the top of the molds. I'm getting finning on the Lyman mold and it picked up about.0015 to about .2965. The Lee molds also picked up about the same with the Lee 312-180 hitting .300+. It is now a tight hand push in the 308 and almost tight in the 30/30 so it is usable. I am going to try lapping the nose of the 309-180 Lee to see if I can get it up to size and if that works, I'll have at the Lyman mold. The driving bands on all are big enough to size to .310 so If I can get the noses to fit I'm good to go. Thanks for the info guys.
Also does anyone have a Lyman 311466 they want to get rid of. I traded for some of those boolits and they shoot very well in my 30/30 so I would like to get that mold.
As far as going back to the mold makers, These are all molds I picked up in trade or bought years ago and just got around to taking a serious look to see if they would shoot.

[9.3X62AL]

Well, awright! I'm glad you got one of the tools do The Right Things. The other one pretty obviously needs a lap-out, as you say. This can be one of the "occupational hazards" of buying used moulds, or even new ones from some of the mass producers. It's a shame that so many elements of the firearms hobbies need construction completion these days.

That "finning" should not be occurring during the contact-pouring. "Whiskering" along the vent lines, OK--but finning indicates a block fit issue or warpage. Check for burrs or alignment pin anomalies that may be causing this to occur.

[pdawg_shooter]

Ok. A little back ground. I spent about 20 years in engine rebuild shops where I rebuilt auto engines and the internal parts. I can consistantly measure to .0001 and have good mics. I also checked the noses in the 2 guns I want to use these boolits. One an H&R 30/30 is a little looser at the muzzle than the H&S Precision barreled 308Win But all boolits noses range from loose to very loose in the muzzels. Both barrels are low mileage. I just came up from the loading room where I just tried several of the suggestions. I'm using a Lee bottom pour, I added 2% tin to the cowws, dropped the temp to 700 and stuck the mold against the spout with throttle full open, dropped the mold a little and poured lead all over the top of the molds. I'm getting finning on the Lyman mold and it picked up about.0015 to about .2965. The Lee molds also picked up about the same with the Lee 312-180 hitting .300+. It is now a tight hand push in the 308 and almost tight in the 30/30 so it is usable. I am going to try lapping the nose of the 309-180 Lee to see if I can get it up to size and if that works, I'll have at the Lyman mold. The driving bands on all are big enough to size to .310 so If I can get the noses to fit I'm good to go. Thanks for the info guys.
Also does anyone have a Lyman 311466 they want to get rid of. I traded for some of those boolits and they shoot very well in my 30/30 so I would like to get that mold.
As far as going back to the mold makers, These are all molds I picked up in trade or bought years ago and just got around to taking a serious look to see if they would shoot.

I have a 311446, but you would need a second morgage on your house to get it away from me. It is one of my best bullets for paper patching. Size it to .3015 in my 06 and 308, and to .304 for my SMLE.

[rbuck351]

Sorry, finning was the wrong term. I get whiskers on some of the boolits.

Maybe NOE will make another run of the 311466 and I can get one of his. Then I would know I was getting a mold that would cast what it is supposed to and I wouldn't have to mortgage the house. Anyway I guess I'll load some of the Lee 312-180s and see how they shoot. Thanks again for the info.

[9.3X62AL]

I may be unique in this sense, but I don't regard "whiskering" as a bad thing in a Lyman mould. My older (early 80s) Lyman #311291 has always had this trait, and it casts VERY nicely and at on-spec dimensions. It is among my most tractable moulds.

[hylander]

I have 3 so called nose rider 30 cal molds, 2 Lees and a Lyman. The largest nose of the three is the .312 Lee mold with a nose of .298. The other Lee and the lyman are .296 and .295. Do I have to order a custom mold to get a nose that is actually .300? Do you folks have nose rider molds that fit? I'm using COWWs, do I need to modify my mix or am I the only one that gets molds that are way undersize?

I have the same LEE mold and so far it throws the same size with COWW or WW/2% tin.
The biggest Nose I have gotten is .299 but most run .297 - .298
LEE told me to change my alloy and it will bump up the bands to .3128/.3152 with a nose of .300/.303
I asked what alloy they use to get this and was told "OSHA prevents us from having any lead on site"
So basically they have ne idea
I'm going to try lapping my mold, then order a custom from Accurate or NOE because I want about 185 - 195gr.
with .311 bands and a nose of .301 or a touch larger

Did someone say group buy

[rbuck351]

I lapped one of my Lee molds nose to about .3005 and although it's not perfectly round, I think it will be close enough. It's now a tight hand fit in my 308Win muzzle and an easy push fit in my 30/30. So now to load some up and see where it shoots. I also ordered a NOE 311165 RD mold and I'm betting it will work.

[hylander]

I lapped the nose of the first cavity of mine today. I don't have fine enough lapping compound so it
basically has some machining marks. Will get some finer lapping compoud tomorrow and finish it up.
However I cast some the way it is.
Body is now a pretty consistant .3115
Nose is now a pretty consistant .299
This is with COWW, I added soem Tin and brought the body up to .3125 and the nose to .2995
So I figure when I finish it with finer lapping compound the nose should be .301
I have no idea why the body is now a consistant .3115 unless the lapping process cleaned up some vent lines.
Will be hopfully shooting them Monday at the local Cast match.

[pipehand]

I picked up a Lyman 311291 cheap at a LGS a couple of years ago. The main driving bands go .313"+ but the nose is .297". The gas check shank measures .281". I am in the process of lapping it out, but I don't want to enlarge the driving bands or gas check shank much, so I'm cutting boolit noses, and just lapping with them for a bit. Once I can get the nose to .300", I'll lap with full boolits to even it out. Has anyone here lapped 3 thousandths out of a steel mold with success?