The design is pretty durable....which means that all kinds of wrong spring strengths can be used and the gun can still come up with a respectable round count as far as longevity. What's being discussed is optimum in terms of the best way to get there from here. I've already discussed how frame battering is oversold, the real reason not to overspring your 1911, and the best way to get to where you're going with the least amount of downside.
It's mostly about putting the odds on your side by going to JMB's original design specs. A heavy spring is not needed nearly as much as is thought, and with JMB's original stop installed really not at all. Even with IPSC "major" loads when the PF was way up there instead of the wimpy levels found now.
The shorter you go with a 1911, the greater the odds it will malfunction. That's pretty much a given. Not saying it will......just that over a given number of guns, more likely to. Rack the slide to the limit of its travel and it's easy to see why looking down into the ejection port.
[QUOTE=gray wolf;2146876]A well tuned 1911 should put empty cases 6 to 8 feet away from the shooter to the rear right.
The angle of the ejected rounds is controlled by the angle on the face on the ejector.
Simple issue, put an extended (or NM as some people call them) ejector in the pistol.
erratic pattern of the ejected rounds is caused by an extractor
Change extractors to a Wilson. They're reliable.
Well, I started thinking on this question of "frame batter" after reading the excellent post by 35Rem so went to another forum specializing on 1911's and posted the question. Started a debate on this and the general consensus so far is that springs do indeed help and more force resulting in a premature failure of the firearm would occur from the rearward motion of the slide than the forward movement back into battery.
I am following the comments with interest because "common knowledge" on this seems to be another instance of "hey, everyone knows....." and not actual testing.
If someone here knows of any links to articles where a manu actually tested this out and compared accelerated wear of a firearm due to high pressure loads vs regular loadings please post so I can read them.
None of this probably would occur until the shooter has run far more rounds through a 1911 than an actual owner would over several lifetimes and be more of a "cover our butts in case of a lawsuit" thing.
Last edited by jonp; 04-06-2013 at 06:42 AM.
It would be helpful to remind oneself that the slide isn't going that fast when it strikes the frame, and that the frame is indeed specifically designed to be struck by the slide. I've already detailed my experience in examining NG range beaters that never had a shok buff, never had their springs changed, and shot ball exclusively to very high round counts. All of these had standard stops.
None showed "frame battering."
If you're deriving a consensus, it's important to determine whether that consensus is from knowledgeable people or ones simply formulating an opinion. IPSC shooters run "undersprung" 1911's all the time to very high round counts without premature frame failure to change how the gun behaves when fired. The lighter sprung gun, to the tune of 2 to 4 lbs. under normal "recommended" spring rates, is to make the gun bounce less on return to battery, which the gamers feel slows their accurate followup shot.
Cooper held IPSC back as long as he could, but it grew in spite of his best efforts.
Some of the "spray and pray" 3 gunners actually hit their intended target on occasion. You can't miss fast enough to win.
What gives me a chuckle is the 5,000 round torture tests the gun rags are fond of. There are many competition shooters who go through 10 times that amount in a year and any failure will cost time, points and over all place in the match.....not acceptable!
Jerry
Buzzard's luck!! Can't kill nothin', nothin'll die!!
BP | Bronze Point | IMR | Improved Military Rifle | PTD | Pointed |
BR | Bench Rest | M | Magnum | RN | Round Nose |
BT | Boat Tail | PL | Power-Lokt | SP | Soft Point |
C | Compressed Charge | PR | Primer | SPCL | Soft Point "Core-Lokt" |
HP | Hollow Point | PSPCL | Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" | C.O.L. | Cartridge Overall Length |
PSP | Pointed Soft Point | Spz | Spitzer Point | SBT | Spitzer Boat Tail |
LRN | Lead Round Nose | LWC | Lead Wad Cutter | LSWC | Lead Semi Wad Cutter |
GC | Gas Check |