Im feeling like a _______ trying to figure twist rate.

[PS Paul]

My stepdad has a brother with Down's Syndrome. Although the word retare does not offend me, I could understand where others might be..... He took great pleasure in pretending he was much more ""handicapped" than he actually was, which always made me angry. The women in our family ALWAYS fell for it, but we knew better. Now, back to the topic.

I did not want to offend with basic questions, but it seems you are having issues and have tried many solutions. If it were me, I'd adjust the variables, but it seems a real mystery and others far more clever and experienced than ME might offer help that WILL help.

[Gtek]

WOOP-WOOP-PC POLICE, pull this thread over. Is there anything left we can do without offending someone? I also have an aunt that is RETARDED, and I love her just like everyone else I care for. Did you know your guns offend some people, did you know your high cap mags offends some people, did you know your truck offends some people, did you know you playing with lead offends some people. ON and ON and ON. I was born here, paid way to many taxes here all my life. Did you know I have the right to offend you! Maybe it would be a lot easier on us ignorant, insensitive people if you and "THEM" would come out with a real list and stick to it and not go changing it every couple years and then go looking down your noses at us cause we ain't keepin up! Gtek

[Pilgrim]

I'm totally confused! The discussion is sorta about twist rate and accuracy. I may not understand what is going on in this thread, but here goes my 2 cents...If your norinco and the SKS both have the same twist, and one groups and the other doesn't, IMO twist is NOT your problem! Barrel condition and barrel uniformity end to end might be the culprit, but I suspect your comment re: the SKS not hitting in the same area every time, let alone grouping, is a major hint. I'd bet a nickle or two that the bedding, or lack of same is why one groups and the other doesn't. Re: Greenhill formula and it's applicability to small arms. I usta think it was some kinda absolute. Or at least I was led to believe so by the various publications I've read in the past. My belief was seriously disabused when I started shooting Hunter Benchrest. .30 cal. rifles all had a 10" twist didn't they? Uhhhh no, they don't! The rifles being used were pretty much all .30 cal. wildcats of one sort or another, and nearly all of them had twist rates of 1:15 or 1:17, with the 1:17 becoming more common all the time. We all used bullets of 135 to 150 gr. with 125 TNT's used occasionally, usually when custom hand made bullets were out of our private inventory. These rifles grouped in less than .1 when piloted by the right shooter and fed with the right ammunition. Greenhill be damned. These rifles couldn't read and the shooters only cared about accuracy and repeatability. Look for your answer someplace other than twist. Pilgrim

[45-70 Chevroner]

I slugged my barrel and it comes out to .311. as for the lee cast mold, its the one designed for the sks. same bullet shape as the factory loads is what lee was trying to get but heavier because of being made out of lead. seating boollit back from touching rifling about .002-.003``

Actually, Ed Harris designed that boolit for Lee. He does almost all of his writting in the Castbullet Association's web site. There is some real good loading info on that boolit (C312-155-2R). I think you can find it if you go on Google and type in Ed Harris reloading cast bullets for the SKS. Or 7.62X39 reloading questions-THR and scroll down to (Vacek) There is a good artical by C E Harris lots of reloading info.

[44MAG#1]

"WOOP-WOOP-PC POLICE, pull this thread over"

Where does one draw the line on being politically incorrect and being an inconsiderate individual.
Some have higher moral and ethical standards than others. Simply because some have no consideration for others when it comes to handicap people is not the same thing as some nut job wanting to do away with guns.
Comparing the 2 shows a lack of sensitivity in oneself.
What is next, going to an cancer treatment center and laughing at the people undergoing chemo and radiation and asking how much longer they have to live while s******ing at them?

[Gtek]

First, I AM SORRY for offending the delicate. There has been some discussion that I thought I read a while back if using the Greenhill formula at the 150 constant can be regarded as a base. Mr. Paul Matthews stated 125 is more of a real number due to velocity increase if I can remember right. You can shoot in twist much faster until you overrun with velocity vs. hardness. The paper is going to be the answer, one thing in the combination can open up into ugly. OOPS, again with the inconsiderate, sorry to all the ugly targets out there. Gtek

[jonp]

Yes, I am offended by what you say so you can't say it and The 1st Amendment be damned. Sound just like a perfect liberal don't I?

[LC Press]

I am not offended but we have better vocabulary skills, right?

[blackthorn]

A word is a word is a word and nothing more! The context in which the word is used is everything! I will be the first to challenge any statements that are directed wirh malice at any group (or individual)---BUT---I have very little time for those who are politically correct (PC) to a ridiculous degree. Gay can also mean happy!

[44MAG#1]

1. Politically correct: : conforming to a belief that language and practices which could offend political sensibilities (as in matters of sex or race) should be eliminated.
2. Politically incorrect: Disregarding or unconcerned with political correctness.
3. Rude: a. Lacking the graces and refinement of civilized life; uncouth and
c. Ill-mannered; discourteous:
4. Caring: Feeling and exhibiting concern and empathy for others.

I am probably as politically incorrect as most but I have a caring nature and try not to offend the handicapped or people that cannot help how they are either physically or mentally.
If that makes me wrong so be it.
If trying to make me feel like a fool makes the politically incorrect crowd more secure in their selves consider I am fat, bald, ugly, not to smart and have tp wear a Depends pee pad at the age of 60.
Feel free to use any of those things to make light of me to make yourselves feel better and more of a "man".
It bothers me not one iota.
The last of my posts on this subject.
Get started and lets see what the "men" can come up with.

[waksupi]

Considering it was an accepted and recognized word for most of the decades of my life, I will use it when the word fits. I like troll-like behavior even less.

[Gtek]

[44man]

I have to also agree it is something with the gun. They sure are as far from a target gun as you can get to start with.

[Ziptar]

Instead of trying to use a formula or the Internet to check your twist rates check it yourself. Try this, Its easy and you already should have the tools for it. This even works on micro-groove barrels.

Grab the bronze brush for the particular caliber you want to check and your cleaning rod from your cleaning kit. (Bore Snakes won't work for this)

1) Shove the bronze brush attached to the rod down into the chamber and check that its flush with the base of the chamber.
2) Using a Sharpie mark the other end of the rod sticking out of the barrel with a hash mark.
3) Slowly pull the rod up out of the barrel by lightly gripping the rod and allowing it to turn.
4) As the rod is pulled out watch it's rotation and make note of how many revolutions or partial revolutions the rod makes.

The number of turns of the rod plus your barrel length is your twist rate. So if your rod make one full turn as you pull it out and your barrel is 16 inches long you've got a 1:16 twist barrel.

[crackerjack57]

I am the one who started this thread and think that some are getting a little side tracked by my use of words directed toward myself. if we could get back on track, I think there could be a wealth of information here from all of you intelegant people that I know I could learn from. on both my norinco and sks the barrels and twist rates are the fixed variable. I cant or rather wont change these as it would be a good waste of money and I don't have a endless amount of that as I'm sure some of you are in the same boat. What I'm trying to learn is how the twist rate affects the length of boolit shot and how to get the best out of what I have. the SKS is a $ 350.00 gun and the Norinco a $ 450.00 gun all set up with scope. I could easily settle for the given accuracy that the SKS affords but it is kinda fun to see what small variables can be changed to yield a huge benefit in accuracy. I know that a difference of .5 gn of powder can cut my groups in half. I also know that on the SKS I have already done all the usual thought of things. the barrel is even free floated from the stock and the receiver is SOLID in the stock as well. the next variable that I came up with was the possible relation of twist rate vs boolit length of what I'm shooting right now. Hence my post. I have read all the ed Harris stuff on the SKS cartridge and am casting the 155 grain boolit suggested. I have already found that If i clip about 1/8" off the tip and clean it up to flat with rounded edges giving me about a 146 gn boolit that I can even shave off about another 1/2" off of my groups at 100y. My thinking is also that with the flat meplat it might even do me a bit better for hunting. I think the pointed boolit would be less efficient as a hunting round than something with a bit of a flat on it. Within the context of what I have said above, can anyone add some light to the subject without getting off course?

[stephen m weiss]

Ok been there done that. The sks has an insane cool action but they put no thought into 1) temperature stability of zero 2) mounting a scope. I have a scope mounted on the rear receiver and ya gotta pin the receiver in place and re=zero every time you replace it. Even so, expect 10 moa shifts when the temp and humidity change much. I expect that the soviet soldier wasnt expected to use double sandbags much. I also expect they didnt spend a heck of a lot of time on the range before battle. The beauty of such a system is that randomly, with enough shooters, one might have the right inaccuracy to offset the lead of a moving target or wind or range inestimation and get a hit. Anyway.. expect to rezero frequently.. If you wanna show off your gunsmithing, you could completely redesign the mounting system of the sks. The front mount is a funny hook which grabs a halfmoon bar screwed across teh stock. The rear mount clicks in the trigger group to sort of pinch the wood stock between the receiver and trigger group. You would want to mount die springs or jack screws to force the receiver hard against teh wood which you had bedded. The front mount would be a real bugger, but perhaps after bedding teh stock, you could remove teh half moon bar and pull the hook down witha toggle bolt cable or something. Thats right thru the cleaning rod and bayonette though....so you would either ditch them or straddle them.

I gave up and just stopped taking a rest with it, haha. Most of my hunting shots are offhand anyway. Those darn deer and squirrels just love being somewhere I didnt plan for!

[Larry Gibson]

It's the scope or the mount or both. Suggest you remove the scope and base, put the rear sight back on and try the SKS that way.

Larry Gibson

[243winxb]

wheel weights bn of 15

15 seems high for WWs? Are you oven heat treating them? Go harder alloy, bullets are skidding as they leave the muzzle. Just my guess.

[JSnover]

Unless you're shooting an oddball load, the twist rate is not your problem. With proven SKS-appropriate boolits within the normal pressure range, if it shoots summer groups (sum'r here, sum'r there) look for loose/poorly fitted parts.

[Digital Dan]

This thread makes me chuckle a little. Have often said that only challenging rifles are interesting but my personal threshold of pain has kept me away from ComBlock manufactured military weapons, for better or worse. Lot of inscrutable folks tried to whack me years ago with AKs and SKS rifles to no avail. Mostly they didn't even come close. Soviet Milspec for accuracy with production of AKs was about 2X the US standard for the -16, have no earthly idea what was imposed (?) on the SKS. Presumably newer production might be a little better, but reading here, maybe not.

Cases in point: I purchased a used Rem 700 chambered in .22-250 that the owner did not trust due to unscheduled discharges on safety release and sometimes when he just closed the bolt. Bought it dirt cheap. Sent it out west and had it rebarreled with a Douglas pipe and chambered in .250 Savage. First two groups fired at 100 yards were .685" (Nosler BT 85gr) and .257" (Nosler PT 100 gr.). Talk about boring...

A Ruger 77/44 which I decided to load with paper patch right out of the gate. Had a bullet made back in '98 by Montana Precision Swaging and while the cupped base version of the 300 grain slug had velocity limits due to pressure, the flat base version with a card wad is a zinger and consistently sub MOA at 100 yds. I load it and kill stuff, end of story. Boring.

Handed down from my grandfather was a Rem 513S with barrel problems. First attempt to remedy was a liner which did not work at all. Second attempt, some 10 years later was a new barrel by Shilen. It is scary accurate now, but I seldom shoot it.

I also purchased a Peter Reinhard built .38 caliber picket rifle, 33" twist w/groove depth of .018", vintage 1876. Guess which one keeps my mind occupied.

That said, half the world can't hit squat with an SKS and I'm not going to try making a silk purse out of a sow's ear. My humble respect to those who not only try that, but more significantly, succeed.

Best wishes and good luck,

Dan