Czech 98/22 Mauser Load for Cast?

[Crash_Corrigan]

I have a mite of Turk Surplus 8 MM ammo with dud primers (1948). I pulled the boolits (170 GR) and saved the powder. Real strange looking black squarish flakes and I have a couple of pounds of it along with a mess of boolits. The cases are trash, old brittle and useless (Scrap now) but I would like to load the boolits and some of my cast Lee 170 GR boolits with GC over about how much of this unknown powder? I have loaded these rounds over 13 gr of Red Dot with excellent results but these rounds were compressed and the weight was 48 GR or so. Should I start out with 20gr and shoot a couple to see what I get or what? I hate to waste the powder but I do not want to destroy this fine old shooter. This old rifle has a pristine bore and the stock was soaked in grease. A week in 110 degree sun and constant wiping with paper towels took out the grease and then a light sanding and some work with a steam iron took out the worst dents. I refinished with tung oil and she was good to go. I have in my smiths shop to have a Lyman receiver sight installed along with a taller front sight and some trigger work. With the lousy issue sights I could get 3 inch groups at 150 yards all day if I did my part ok. I run 30-06 brass thru the 8MM dies and cut off the excess 6 MM with a trimmer and I am good to go as the price of 8 mm brass is high.

[waksupi]

Dan, I suspect that 20 grains is too light of a load, and you may have a SEE occurance. I would go up to around 32-35 gr. to start for the cast loads. I have some of the same powder, and I believe I weighed either 47-48 grains from mine. Keep the case at least 2/3 full, and maybe use a filler starting in.

[Ben]

Crash :

As to salvaging surplus powders from 8 X 57 mil rounds, I've read too much about blow ups. In my opinion, it isn't worth the risk. Propellants are expensive today..YES ! But blowing up your nice pristine rifle along with the loss of your vision, face, etc......Nope, it just isn't worth it. Even if the risk is small, those portions of your anatomy listed above are priceless. I want to save money just like any other reloader, but I don't think I want to save money bad enough to use this type of powder to do my reloading.

A one lb.can of 2400 and a Lee mold will get you this at 50 yards.( see photo below ) I went to the range today and shot this group with a Turkish 8 X 57 mm rifle that belongs to one of my friends. I installed a Williams 5D on it. The bore like yours is pristine. I can do a lot of shooting with a 17 gr. charge from the 1 lb. can of 2400.

Why fool around with unknown " pull down " powders that are 50, 60, 70 yrs. old ....it is just too risky.

Again this is solely my opinion which may vary greatly from other shooters.

Ben

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[singleshotbuff]

Crash,

I use pulldown 8X57mm powder and bullets. The lot I pulled down had a powder charge of 41grs (give or take) and I have went as low as 30grs in commercial 8mm cases (or reformed 30/06) with the original 198gr bullets. All with success and accuracy.

Having said ALL of that, this is not something to be taken lightly, or undertaken without A LOT of reloading experience and A LOT of caution. In my opinion, using ANY pulldown powder without use of a chronograph is foolhardy. A chronograph will not only tell you the velocity of your loads, but also the UNIFORMITY as well.

The above advice to keep the case 2/3 full is sound, please heed it. If you have never used a filler, PLEASE STUDY THE SUBJECT CAREFULLY. There are a lot of ways to use fillers wrong, many of which can damage your gun, or worse, you.

Not telling you what you should or shouldn't do, just giving my $0.02 worth. If you'd like to drop me a PM, I'll pass along some of my research/ideas on pulldown powders and fillers. May save you some work reinventing the wheel. However, please be 100% sure of your abilities and the risks before you attempt to use that powder. As stated above, your tender parts are not worth the price of a pound or two of powder.

SSB

[Castoff]

Very good sound and sage advice, Ben.

Powder from old Miitary "pulls" is tempting, BUT, without assuredly knowing the true type and having some reliable load data, it becomes a gusessing game of great risk.
Also, you don't know its age or the potentially harmful conditions to which the powder has been subjcted (extemes of heat, cold and moisture) which may harm the powder and change it characteristics.

Shoot a lot and be safe.

Castoff

[Ben]

Castoff:

I certainly don't want to offend anyone with my remarks above and I hope that my comments are taken as I had hoped that they would be taken - - - with caution and if we are to err, let's err on the side of safety.

I'm like singleshotbuff...I certainly am not trying to tell anyone what they should or shouldn't do. If anyone chooses to experiment with something like this, that's their choice. I just am very leary about saving a few dollars with reclaimed pull down powder of unknown lot, unknown burn rate, etc., and running the risk of a spontaneous detonation by reducing the charge weight. Guessing may not be quite good enough with something like this ? ?
Like I said, as far as I'm concerned my head , face and eyes come way ahead of the little bit of money that I could hope to save in the venture, if the 1 or 2 lbs. of pull down powder were in my hands.

Ben

[waksupi]

I kind of look at the 8mm pulldown this way. I've shot hundreds of milsurp issue rounds of it through various rifles. It seems pretty consistant. I don't remember what the fps was over the chrony, but was not overboard for the chambering. and no serious signs of pressure in any of the rifles. I do know I divided the grains of powder into fps, And seem to remember getting something like 56-57 fps per grain of powder. So, you can easily compare this to a known powder, to get the burn rate, or multiply the fps/gr to the desired starting velocity.

[Larry Gibson]

Crash

I've not run into any Turk ammo that had 170 gr bullets, all of mine from late'30s through early '50s was with the 150+/- gr bullets. With the brittle case necks I pull the bullets, resize the necks (lose about 5 - 10% to splits) and then put a 90 or 95% charge back in, seat the bullets and crimp with a LFCD. The remanufactured turk ammo then is reliable, accurate and doesn't have sticky extractrsaction do to the brittle cases. I thus have bullets and powder left over do to the split necks on pulling or sizing. I load these in regular cases and they shoot fine. I have not got very consistant ignition with this turk pulldown powder below 80% of the original charge thus I've not used any with cast bullets. Was I you I'd just use it with the jacketed bullets.

Larry Gibson