Without doing the... Home Work, what is the consistency of the recipe listed in Post #1.
Does this formula need to be heated or not ? I don't like to have to heat my lube. I live in Mid-Appalachia.........
Without doing the... Home Work, what is the consistency of the recipe listed in Post #1.
Does this formula need to be heated or not ? I don't like to have to heat my lube. I live in Mid-Appalachia.........
Sprue ™
I am not using heat with Bens Red at all. I size in my basement, temps in the 70 degree range. It flows quite easily at that temp.
btroj
I also lube in my basement.
In the winter, it can be below 70 degrees in my basement and Ben's Red still flows well in a lube sizer.
Ben
that's the easy part modifying the recipe.
make it first.
then add a little more trans fluid for more slippery.
or a little more grease for softer in the winter time use.
the opposite for the heat.
a bit less grease or a bit more b-wax for summer time use.
Thanks for covering this again.
Sometimes I wonder if anyone is reading any of this ? ?
A few of us seem to be answering the same questions over and over.
Gear , - is it time to make a " Stickey " on this subject ?
_________________
Here are links that should answer any questions shooters might have about making Ben's Red. My comments & experiences and those who have experienced problems ( and the advice to correct their problems ) are included in the links below :
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...light=bens+red
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...light=bens+red
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...light=bens+red
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...light=bens+red
Last edited by Ben; 09-30-2012 at 11:18 PM.
Thanks, whoever stickied this!!
Gear
Now that this information is safe in Sticky Land (or possibly Red & Tacky Land). . .I've read all I can find on this lube, and have a few questions:
1. Has anybody stuck a candy thermometer into a bowl of heated R&T to determine at exactly what point the stuff liquifies? OR. . .has anybody checked the temperatures of the other ingredients to see at what point they'll start combining with the R&T? Seems like these numbers haven't been tracked down. The fellow with the toaster oven was probably the closest to something like this, but his numbers were oven settings, rather than the actual ingredient temperatures.
2. On one of the earlier threads it was suggested to make minimalist batches of Ben's Red that left out the tranny fluid, STP, and even the JPW to see just how critical those were to the finished product. I could not find anything stating that this had been done. Has it?
3. (Probably for Professor Geargnasher) I looked up the MSDS for Johnson's Paste Wax, which states that the ingredients are 5-10% by weight of carnauba, 10-30% paraffin wax, and 75-85% "isoparaffinic hydrocarbon solvent" which I assume to be whatever "stuff" is used to keep JPW a "paste wax" instead of a "block wax". While the success of the lube seems to speak for itself, I'm curious as to what this solvent is doing for or against the final product. Since Johnson's seems a little sloppy with their percentages, could swapping out the JPW with a 2-1 (or other) mix of canning paraffin and carnauba flakes give us a means of generating more consistent results from batch to batch?
WWJMBD?
In the Land of Oz, we cast with wheel weight and 2% Tin, Man.
I heated mine only enough to get things to mix then I held the heat for close to 30 minutes with occasional stirring. I was left with a few small lumps of grease but not many. I filtered it thru an old t-shirt to eliminate those lumps. Works very well. I don't want to heat it hot enough to melt the grease, that kind of heat would scare me a bit. I also don't know how well the other ingredients would handle the heat. Gentle heat and time are your friends.
The solvents in the JPW will evaporate long before the lune is fully mixed. The heat and time required to get it to mix well will ensure the solvents are gone. As for the variations in JPW listed in the MSDS I doubt the formula varies that much. Wonder if that is to protect proprietary info and to account for some evaporation in storage/shipment? Either way, I don't think it is going to matter much. The JPW percentage in the final lube is minimal so a 10 percent difference in the JPw formula may end up being a .25 percent change in final formula- not gonna matter.
Anyone wanting to make some- be sure to do it outside or in a garage with the doors open and a fan blowing. Tha grease does stink things up a bit when heated. Not something I would do in my wife's kitchen.
Bigslug
I'm sorry, but I'm unable to answer ANY of your 3 questions.
My routine is identical to btroj's :
I heated mine only enough to get things to mix then I held the heat for close to 30 minutes with occasional stirring. I was left with a few small lumps of grease but not many. I filtered it thru an old t-shirt to eliminate those lumps.
I , like others, would NEVER consider making this lube inside your home !
Ben
Gear,
No_1 ( Robert ) made this into a Sticky for us.
Many thanks to Robert for his help.
Hopefully , members can go to one location now for information related to Ben's Red.
Thanks again to all for your help,
Ben
Last edited by Ben; 10-02-2012 at 09:35 AM.
I am not the only one. I offered, another moderator stuck it in between the time I left work and got home then I cleaned it up a little
"The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion."
- Albert Camus -
the melt point of the grease is either 350-f or just over 500-f
i'm betting it being a #2 it's just over 350-f
i haven't made the ben's red but in making a quite similar lube [E-purple] i leave out the [jpw] carnuba.
and substitute micro parrafin.
i do however add in mineral spirits to the initial mix to replicate the cooked off solvents.
the atf and stp contain booster ingredients to the red and tacky,and the atf adds the glide necessary for lubrication at lower temperatures,
it's a poe and it reacts with the fats in the carnuba to keep it in a softer condition.
the solvents are also acting as a plasticizer to the parrafinics in the jpw keeping it soft and malleable even though they are cooked off they have allready modified the carbon chain of the parrafin.
adding in the stp will take thier place as the plasticizer it also has a tacky ingredient similar if not the same as the one in the lucas to help hold everything together.
much of this has been covered in the lube quest thread especially the carnuba poe relationship [around page 250],and the adding/subtracting solvents [somewhere around page 150]
and the tacky is right near the last pages.
runfiverun :
I'm certainly not smart enough to figure out that each of the components in Ben's Red would be doing all those things the way they do, so I can only attribute the success of the lube to pure old poker luck.
Ben
No worries. My wife is a foodie, and I've absorbed a lot of her food science thinking through proximity and osmosis. It just seemed natural that a candy thermometer (or lead pot thermometer) would have a place in the lube-cooking game. When boiling sugars, there are temperature ranges that determine where you get caramels, fudges, hard candies, etc... Knowing the "goo point" for certain ingredients might help in how and when they get mixed together.
As for dealing with the unyielding lumps of R&T - I believe that a MODIFIED kitchen whisk is the answer. For some cooking project or another, my wife had me cut the looped portions of the whisk wires, so what we were left with was basically a bundle of straight wires. This particular whisk had a metal disk with holes in it that each wire ran through - this served to keep the wires spread out. I can't yet say how it performs on hot grease, but on various batters it is a lump-busting madman.
If there's a kitchen immersion blender that can take the heat involved, that would be a natural choice, so long as splash precautions are taken.
WWJMBD?
In the Land of Oz, we cast with wheel weight and 2% Tin, Man.
Several have used a wisk with success to get the red and tacky to fully liquefy.
Ben
Don't know if this will answer the temp questions.
I made some and was using a thermometer in the mix while heating it (I did not want to get the beeswax to hot). I heated the mix all together on low on a hot plate cooked it for approx 30 to 45 min. temp never got above 211 degrees F. In fact most of the time it stayed at 170. The red and tacky was all liq. before the beeswax. I think this kept the temps in the 165 to 170 range as the temps only climbed after the last of the beeswax had melted. All the other ingredient had already liquified before the beeswax. Looking back I wish I would have cut the beeswax up into smaller pieces prior to putting it in the pot.
I did not think it smelled bad either maybe my nose and thermometer are both broke. Also measured the mix by weight. I set my pot on a postal scale and added all the ingredient at the beginning then heated slow.
i just use a regular from the second hand shop electric blender with kinda matching beaters.
for the initial heating/melting stages a hand wisk is used to keep things moving.
but as soon as everything is melted in comes te electric and off the heat it comes.
if i am adding more lithium stearates to the greases i have to have temps over 450-f,not only to melt some of the greases, but to incorporate the stearate.
a general blending at about 225-f will usually allow all the components to break down and re-form into a homogenous blend.
So after reading yet another Bens Red thread, I decided I would begin gathering ingredients to make some for myself. I got a tube of the Red n Tacky at my local parts store, and right on the front of it it says "540 degree F Drop Point."
So, I'm guessing that means it won't fully liquefy til that temperature...
MikeyPooh :
I've melted my fair share of Lucas Red and Tacky grease. I'm very " low tech " and don't use a thermometer.
I can't tell you the exact temp that it melts, but in my opinion it is considerably lower than your figure of 540 degrees F .
Gee,.... that is only 100 degrees away from the melting point of lead.
Ben
BP | Bronze Point | IMR | Improved Military Rifle | PTD | Pointed |
BR | Bench Rest | M | Magnum | RN | Round Nose |
BT | Boat Tail | PL | Power-Lokt | SP | Soft Point |
C | Compressed Charge | PR | Primer | SPCL | Soft Point "Core-Lokt" |
HP | Hollow Point | PSPCL | Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" | C.O.L. | Cartridge Overall Length |
PSP | Pointed Soft Point | Spz | Spitzer Point | SBT | Spitzer Boat Tail |
LRN | Lead Round Nose | LWC | Lead Wad Cutter | LSWC | Lead Semi Wad Cutter |
GC | Gas Check |