Swaged bullet for sale??

[DukeInFlorida]

So, I get an email from some new member here, ZERO POSTS, suggesting that I might have some 9mm > .40 swaged bullets for sale. (Ehaver)

HUH??

I'd like to know who offered up my name for that one..........

1) I am NOT in the business of selling bullets. I neither have the license to do so, nor the inclination to be in the business.

2) I am usually likely to help out a long term forum member, especially someone who I know, and has been contributing to the forum with some free samples for testing.

3) I am not inclined to assist anyone who comes across with a "Do you have the goods?" inquiry, and ZERO posts........

So, for the record, I am NOT in the business of selling any bullets, cast or swaged! I have no interest in ever doing so, under any circumstances! Anyone who approaches me with a similar inquiry will be met with an unfriendly response.

I have gladly provided free samples for testing and documentation to several police departments across the country, and will continue to cooperate with any such requests.

The rest of you, especially those with ZERO posts, feel free to BUY a set of dies and make your own, or buy factory bullets. Over and out.

[runfiverun]

weren't me.
making these things one at a time and everything else that's involved takes waay too much time and effort to even think about selling.
heck i don't even wanna shoot them after i make em let alone have someone else do it.

[Sasquatch-1]

weren't me.
making these things one at a time and everything else that's involved takes waay too much time and effort to even think about selling.
heck i don't even wanna shoot them after i make em let alone have someone else do it.

+1 on that!

If I were to attempt to sell mine (which would be out of the question) I would have to charge $10.00 a bullet just to make up for the time.

[I'll Make Mine]

This is a common spam/scam -- I've got a web page up from several years ago, documenting the first few steps in construction of a lathe, and I still get e-mail from time to time inquiring on sale prices for the lathes I manufacture. The difference is that apparently someone went so far as to register for this board in order to send the message.

If you responded, the course of the communication would start to resemble the common 419 scam -- assurances that you can make lots and lots of money, only you have to send them a little to start (or else you have to give them the information to wire the funds to you, which information they can use to either empty your bank account or steal your identity). With standard e-mail, the recommended action is to simply delete it; with a message on this board, it should probably be reported or forwarded to an admin, so they can take appropriate action against the spammer (though it was probably a sacrificial account in the first place).

[DukeInFlorida]

No, not that kind of scam....

This guy showed up in chat, asking questions....... Supposedly wanting to know if anyone had any experience with BT Sniper's tools.
Seems one of my buddies in chat suggested that this guy contact me. The cht guys said that he never mentioned BUYING bullets.

So, to my eye, this was some attempt at entrapment. I have chastised the guys in chat, they should know better.

The tip off to me is that this new mystery guy never posted in the swaging area, not even once. Perhaps he should have just contacted BT Sniper directly.

[Lizard333]

Easy Duke. Did the guy just want to buy some off of you to try before he bought? Did he want a huge amount? I remember a year ago I posted some half jackets here not having a clue what they were, you were really helpful. The zero posts from that guy would make me a little suspect, as you were.

[DukeInFlorida]

I have never posted the contents of anyone's private message to me, so this will be a first. This is the message I got:
-------------------------------
9mm to .40 s&w
I was told you might have some btsniper boolits for sale.

i am intrested in about 100 or so in .40 cal

let me know if you have the goods!


----------------------------------

Everything says beware!
Zero Posts
No posts in the swaging area at all.....
"Let me know if you have the goods" ??? ***!

[I'll Make Mine]

Not sure how that could be entrapment, unless I missed the memo about it being illegal to sell home swaged bullets, and it's clearly not the "Chinese wholesale buyer" scam I thought from your original description. Whether there's any economy in selling bullets that aren't mass produced is another question -- to which the answer is surely "no", you can't sell 'em for enough to pay for your time in making them if you're pulling the press handle yourself.

[MIBULLETS]

Duke, now I see your concern.

I recently recieved a PM from a member of another site asking me, "Are you a maker?"

I'll Make Mine, it is illegal to sell bullets unless you have the proper FFL.

[anotherred]

And why can't we buy/sell boolits? I'm not talking the assembled cartages, but just the boolit? I'm in no way saying I'm interested in making/selling/buying. I'm just curious as to why this is.

[Pavogrande]

Yes, I would be interested in what says homebuilt "boolits" are illegal to sell --

As to your "spammer" - I think not, I get literally hundreds of scam/spam from my ads on craigslist and while his pm is a bit presumptous and perhaps even rude, it not an uncommon style of internet communication in today's world.
"u still gots 4 sell " "what u low price" and of course the offer "to send extra money and have their agent pick it up as they are out of the country on a secret mission".
Now these are scams and phishs trying to get your email address or other info for Lord knows what ---
my tuppence

[runfiverun]

you have to have the proper ffl to sell assembled ammunition or components [amount doesn't matter if you make them]
it's an 06/or an 03 [can't remember right now]
you also have to pay the taxes [sales and the 10% sporting] on what you make [not sell] so quite often the maker ends up buying the blems from himself then selling them back to the company as "materials".
showing the loss on his taxes.
been there and done that, ain't doin it again.

there are ways around this if the amounts are small enough and no money changes hands.

but seriously "let me know if you have the goods" sounds like a bad 60's narco set-up.

[6mm win lee]

New Guy. Been a reader for years.

I would urge extreme caution when some total stranger wants to get some thing like boolits, raw milk, distilled spirits and other stuff the feds have an interest in. Most people being decent folk will give a stranger in need small quanities of whatever. Christian Charity is still not a crime though some of our fellow cittizens seem to think it is. However if said stranger wants to insist on giving you a few bucks for whatever it is then you should snatch the item back and send the person, man, woman, or child packing with their money and tell them to stay off your property. Take their picture if you can because you might be seeing them again. Chances are it is a federal setup or sting operation to entrap the unwary into a violation of some interstate commerce claus regulation.

6

[Sasquatch-1]

This thread is very inlightening. But what about the many people here that I have seen trying to sell some extra bullets that they no longer have a use for? Is that the same thing? Maybe the moderator of Swapping and Selling should be advising these people that they are breaking a federal law. Also, would bartering fall into the same catagory as selling?

[Reload3006]

Even the BATF has issues interpreting the need for an FFL to sell some bullets. The wording of the law states that it has to be a significant portion of your business or words to that effect. I have an email from them asking that question. I have elected NOT to sell any of my bullets because I don't wish to test the interpretation of the Law. Also as someone has already said its too much work for too little gain for me to sell bullets. But you supposedly don't need an ffl unless your in the business to make projectiles.

[I'll Make Mine]

Geesh, no wonder commercial components (even machine-cast boolits) cost so much. Next thing it'll be illegal to sell all kinds of other home crafted items -- quilts, pot holders, preserves and cookies, and so forth. Federal crime to sell milk straight from the cow? Does BATFE need to add an M?

[b52fizzle]

Geesh, no wonder commercial components (even machine-cast boolits) cost so much. Next thing it'll be illegal to sell all kinds of other home crafted items -- quilts, pot holders, preserves and cookies, and so forth. Federal crime to sell milk straight from the cow? Does BATFE need to add an M?

Can't sell any milk (cow or goat) for human consumption that's not USDA inspected, this includes meats and surely other stuff. Government has been trying to regulate sell of animals and produce for awhile. There are certain restrictions already.

[DukeInFlorida]

Corbin, a manufacturer of commercial swaging machines, provides you with tons of information about how to get in the business. His web site is chock full of good info. So the following is an excerpt from:
http://www.corbins.com/business.htm
------------ and I quote ------------
Licensing

You need to obtain a Federal Firearms License, Class 6, "Manufacturer of Ammunition or Components of Ammunition". This is the same form as a regular gun dealer license, except that you check off the Class 6 box. The cost at this writing is still only $10 per year, with a 3 year term (so it costs you $30 for 3 years). To get the FFL, log onto the BAFT website and find out where to send for the form at the field office nearest to you or from headquarters. The BATF website is listed in website links.

You do not need a business location, if you are not open to walk-in sales. But you do need a physical location for your business records and license. If you have a shop or garage, and this is your "location", then the BAFT field agents need to have access to this area during the business hours that you list on your license application, and on those days you plan to be open (which you state on the license app). If the only way to your file cabinet is through your house, guess what? Then they have a legal right to go through your house to get there. So, if you don't want this to happen, make sure there is an outside door giving access to your shop or work area, and keep your records right there. What records? Just general business info, same as you need for the IRS or your state tax agency. Sales, inventory purchase invoices.

There is a lot of misinformation and unfounded fear surrounding the license. Some people think the BAFT can just storm in at any time without a warrant and demand to see your records. No. Wrong. They probably couldn't care less about your records in the first place, because people who manufacture bullets to sell and do not load ammo or sell guns are just about the last people they care about. There's little or nothing to trace. But they do have the right to inspect your records, during the normal hours and days of operation that you put on your license. If you work part time, that could be Saturdays from noon to four in the afternoon. Whatever you say on the license application is your business hours for the term of the license. That is when the agent can visit and ask to see information. All the talk about warrants and searches has to do with criminal cases, not ordinary business! For heaven's sake! It would be funny if it wasn't such a wide-spread misconception.

Part of the misinformation is, I believe, a deliberate effort to stir up fear in order to shake money out of donors to pro-firearms causes. There are plenty of other reasons to support pro-2nd ammendment lobbies, but some of the organizations get a little too tempted to play the fear card. Yes, abuses have happened. But in almost every case, there was a seemingly justifiable reason behind the actions. Some guy is seen tossing hand grenades around, bragging about his para-military connections, or participating in what looks like para-military activities, and he draws attention to himself. If this unfortunate person happens to have an FFL, then it becomes more of an issue.

The ordinary citizen could, in a string of co-incidental innocent actions, appear to be fitting a dangerous pattern, and could, and probably has, attracted improper attention as a result of it. But by and large, this isn't the case. There is usually a person with a few screws loose at the heart of these examples of fine upstanding citizens being bulldozed by an aggressive gun-hating agency. Most of the agents I know are not gun haters. Some are shooters. I have fired many a round with federal agents, spoken for years with BAFT field agents, and most of them are pretty nice folks with no axes to grind. Could there be a few who would like to be jack-booted thugs if they could? Probably. So could your local florist! Only the florist is more likely to dress up in camo and give it a try, since so few people are keeping tabs on him compared to the agent!

With bullets, there is no requirement for a record of clients and sales to them, no excise tax on the bullets (as opposed to loaded ammunition). In reality, you will probably never see any agent from any agency in regard to this business, unless you conduct a business in a location where your local land use laws prohibit it. In fact, before you can get an FFL, you have to be cleared with local law enforcement, which means you probably need a business license if you are in the city. However, the number of bullet makers who do business outside of cities and have no business license (and don't need one) is probably far greater than those who do.

If you are a conspiracy theorist and believe that having any sort of license from a government entity is a license to be invaded by jack-booted thugs, then don't even think about starting a bullet business. It isn't worth not having the license, which is cheap, easy to get for non-felons, only requires a standard FBI fingerprint search at your local sheriff or police headquarters, and the assurance of your local law enforcement authority that there is no law prohibiting you from operating this kind of business at the location you put on the application.

(Anyone who owns property, drives a car, has utility connections, has been in the military or school system, votes, or in general enjoys the normal life of even a moderately successful American, is already known or easily can be found by any government agency who has the need and the right to do so. Why worry about a little thing like the FFL? You are already in the database, pal! If the mysterous men in black have not got you yet, odds are pretty good they aren't going to! And if they do, not a whole lot you can do about it at this point anyway...might as well sell some bullets in the meanwhile!

If you are an unknown hermit with no prior contact with civilization, it isn't likely you will find many clients anyway.) Please bear in mind that while abuses of power have always and will always happen, they are rare, there is usually a major provocation to trigger them, and the repercussions cause so much bad publicity that it is a long time before such a thing happens again. The average good fellow minding his own business or trying to start one is not usually the subject of a Waco-like fiasco. These guys were nuts! Are you nuts? I thought not. Then quit worrying about it.

------------ end quote ----------

[anotherred]

Duke, good read. Now can we buy some bullets... HA HA. Now I hope the wife doesn't need a FFL license for rock collecting as theres not much difference, as a bullet is nothing more than a faster rock.

[Thetraveler]

yes Duke very good read indeed.