anyone tried reaming .38 spl cases to better fit WCs?

[JoeTheMechanic]

im wondering if anyone has played with reaming 38spl or any other brass really, so better accept a boolit, particularly wadcutters. factory wadcutters are expensive and rare here, and how my mixed HS brass will swag each WC is a crapshoot. being a borning tinkerer, i had an idea.

im thinking i could size the brass, then ream it to .358 and to the depth that you intend to seat the boolit. my lee mold casts .3585-.359, so at least for me that should be pretty much perfect case tension. and, at least in theory, i could turn any .38 spl brass into WC brass.

there are of course a few things that im not sure about, like tooling marks on the case damaging the boolit, or the brass life being shortened. but the .358 reamer is readily availible so im thinking of trying it.

[Frank V]

I have never had a problem seating wadcutter bullets. I do flare the case mouth just a bit more for them though. Some cases ,TZZ especially, seem to be thicker & sometimes I'll get a bulge when seating bullets. It doesn't seem to hurt accuracy, but they do chronograph about 35fps faster on an average. A lot of our bullets are bevel base now-days & tend to seat easier that a flat base. I prefer a flatbase myself though.
Good luck.
Frank

[454gene]

A friend asked if I could make a oversized case expander/powder dump for 45 acp. He has a Dillon and when he loads swaged WC they would get reduced by about a .001. Maybe a larger expander would work.

[Longwood]

These guys have an .358 expander plug that works with the Lee die.

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/1221/1

[462]

A proper "expanding" die that expands the case to the desired diameter and to at least the depth of the boolit is what you want. Lyman's M-die is an excellent example.

The Lee die only "flares" or "bells" the case mouth, and does not expand the case.

Apples and oranges.

Edit to add: Longwood types faster. I've not used them, but those do look like they will expand a case.

[HeavyMetal]

Your approaching the problem from the wrong end!
Find steel sizing die and polish it out so it doesn't size your case so much!

Did this with an old 310 die, federal match brass for my S&W 52. It worked great!

[JoeTheMechanic]

These guys have an .358 expander plug that works with the Lee die.

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/1221/1

didnt see .358 on there, just .377 for the REALLY old .38 bp cartridges.

A proper "expanding" die that expands the case to the desired diameter and to at least the depth of the boolit is what you want. Lyman's M-die is an excellent example.

The Lee die only "flares" or "bells" the case mouth, and does not expand the case.

i am looking at the "m" die for .38 spl as well as "cowboy" dies, but my searches havent turned up much on how deep they will expand and opinions go both ways as to their usefulness.
the lee powder through die actually does expand the neck as well as flare the mouth, its just not deep enough. ideally i would like a die that i could adjust to expand the full depth that the bullet is seater, and then flare the mouth separately if need be.
i've actually had good results with seating the boolits only a little more than 1/2 way, but it makes the rounds noticably position sensitive and where i shoot targets have to be at ground level to please the sheriff and the neighbor. cause you know how pistol boolits bounce off dead trees and travel 180* in the opposite direction for 150 yards with double-wide penetrating force

[JoeTheMechanic]

Your approaching the problem from the wrong end!
Find steel sizing die and polish it out so it doesn't size your case so much!

Did this with an old 310 die, federal match brass for my S&W 52. It worked great!

or you could just get cowboy dies, which are supposed to size less, along with other things boolit like.
or just dont size your brass, read of several .38wc guys that dont, but i think that wouldent do so hot in a 52. i've actually got 12 rounds in unsized brass with the soup cans seated to the top groove waiting for my next trip to the range. but sizing the outside doesnt account for case wall thickness, so its still leaving a variable where you dont want one.

i'll probably end up trying the cowboy dies, which are supposed to size the whole case larger as well as expand the neck more, but in the never ending quest for better groups, i bet i will at least try the reamer idea before its all said and done. turning mixed HS brass into perfect target brass is like lead into gold, it will probably never work but holy sheep if it did

[Longwood]

[QUOTE=JoeTheMechanic;1769428]didnt see .358 on there, just .377 for the REALLY old .38 bp cartridges.

Well rats.
I am sorry for leading you astray.
I was looking there last night and sure thought I saw a 358.

[williamwaco]

One more tip.

DO NOT attempt to load wad cutters in military brass. That brass is so thick you will have real trouble.

[JoeTheMechanic]

longwood:

Well rats.
I am sorry for leading you astray.
I was looking there last night and sure thought I saw a 358.

they might just list what they have made up, maybe someone bought the last .358. either way i do appreciate it. thats pretty close to what i was thinking when i first started looking at ways to improve my reloading process. i have considered asking a machine shop to duplicate the expander from my lee die but with the expander the length of one of my wadcutters and .358 instead of .356. still might end up going that rout, we'll see after i put in my next midway order on payday.

if anyone is using a cowboy expander from any of the die makers, i would be interested in knowing the dimensions of the expander plug or seeing a picture of the plug itself. i'd hate to buy a die and have no use for it

*edit*

One more tip.

DO NOT attempt to load wad cutters in military brass. That brass is so thick you will have real trouble.

good to know, TY

[Longwood]

longwood:

they might just list what they have made up, maybe someone bought the last .358. either way i do appreciate it. thats pretty close to what i was thinking when i first started looking at ways to improve my reloading process. i have considered asking a machine shop to duplicate the expander from my lee die but with the expander the length of one of my wadcutters and .358 instead of .356. still might end up going that rout, we'll see after i put in my next midway order on payday.

if anyone is using a cowboy expander from any of the die makers, i would be interested in knowing the dimensions of the expander plug or seeing a picture of the plug itself. i'd hate to buy a die and have no use for it

*edit*


good to know, TY

There are a few machinists here that can do it for you.
Theperfessor and Buckshot come to mind.
Goodsteel may do it for you also.

[geargnasher]

the lee powder through die actually does expand the neck as well as flare the mouth, its just not deep enough. ideally i would like a die that i could adjust to expand the full depth that the bullet is seater, and then flare the mouth separately if need be.

You're one of the few people on the internet that has exactly and succinctly described the whole problem with Lee expanders, and Dillon and many others for that matter. Most people have a hard time wrapping their heads around the concept of parallel case expansion to get the correct pre-tension dimension the entire depth to which the boolit will be seated.

Knowing exactly what you need, you may find that a few minutes with one of the Track Of The Wolf expanders, a drill press, file, and sandpaper followed by a hacksaw to adjust length and a re-bevel will fix your wadcutter "problem" with most civilian brass.

Along the lines of your original question, I tend to think, like someone else mentioned, that rather than reaming the necks with (for example) a Forster .35 Remington .358" neck reamer, you'd be better served to get an old steel sizing die and hone it out so it gave you the neck tension you needed with fired brass plus another couple thousandths, and use that in conjunction with an expander/bellmouth spud that was the correct length and diameter for your boolits. It would be much easier to use, too, than having to ream each case.

Gear

[Longwood]

Uniform brass wall thickness is important. If you want to shoot mixed brass and for it to be accurate, it may help some.
With straight walled brass, I kept it simple and shot the same brand of brass and weighed them and uniformed the size of the primer holes but that was about it.
I only recall machining necks twice. Both times with bottle neck brass. Once when I was varmint shooting and was making brass from millitary brass that had a neck wall that was too thick.
The next time was when I made 30-30 brass from 375 Winchester brass when I was competing at IHMSA silhouette shooting.
I tried a reamer but liked the results from the little lathes better.
I got the 30-30 to shooting well enough that I could put three out of five through the hole between the rams head and horn from 220 yards and with open sights
. It was much harder if he was facing right for some strange reason.

[JoeTheMechanic]

You're one of the few people on the internet that has exactly and succinctly described the whole problem with Lee expanders, and Dillon and many others for that matter. Most people have a hard time wrapping their heads around the concept of parallel case expansion to get the correct pre-tension dimension the entire depth to which the boolit will be seated.

Knowing exactly what you need, you may find that a few minutes with one of the Track Of The Wolf expanders, a drill press, file, and sandpaper followed by a hacksaw to adjust length and a re-bevel will fix your wadcutter "problem" with most civilian brass.
Gear

seems like a pretty straight frwd situation to me. lead is softer than brass, if you put a .358 boolit in a hole that tapers to .355, the boolit is going to end up tapering pretty close to .355, a little bigger due to the brass stretching as the boolit is sized/seated but its just common sense. i think i will take a stab at reworking a track of the wolf expander. no drill press here though, will have to settle for a drill and a bench vice. the shop im working in now is so under-equipped it hurts to think about.

[Nobade]

I made a long expander to do just what you want, then found out if was needed the brass was too thick. I started sorting the brass by headstamp and found out which brands fit best. Then I kept them separate for use with wadcutters.

The main things I learned about shooting wadcutters is, don't resize the cases. Seat the boolits with an arbor press. Use a light taper crimp. Use the right brass. After doing this, my wadcutter ammo is as accurate as the factory stuff and is easy to assemble. Oh, I use the Zero swaged hollow base boolits. They work well and at least used to be cheap. The Remington ones work well too. But not if you resize the brass!

[Echo]

One more tip.

DO NOT attempt to load wad cutters in military brass. That brass is so thick you will have real trouble.

+1 - Tried GI brass with Hdy HBWC's, and they shot all over the target, rom a good Clark .38. Wall thickness was so much more that they swaged down the soft HBWC all the way to the nose (?) of the bullet.

[HeavyMetal]

As it's been said: mixed cases can be a can of worms!

I mentioned Federal match cases, bought 500 once fired, specifically for this experiment.

By polishing out the old 310 die I was able to control the amount I sized the case but the end result will

Meaning how well the load shoots, will be affected by the "quality" of your starting point which is your
case.
The 358 expander plug is a good idea but, as you pointed out, case wall tckness well cause issues with exterior diamensions which well effect chambering?

Just posting my notes as food for thought. Notes say I actually do both: control.case sizing and use an expader plug I made t match boolit length. At 358 diameter.

[wallenba]

Lyman 'M' die is essential for seating my WC's. Nothing else seems to work as well. I now use them for most all of my cast. I used to get rounds that exhibited a slight bulge on one side or the other, now if I get a bulge, it's even all around. Using all the same brand brass, from the same lot, helps with consistancy too.

When I use a Lee charge through die with a case activated powder dispenser, the OD of the expander has been ground down in diameter to not be effective, so that my 'M' die flare is not disturbed. Works for me.

[casterofboolits]

RCBS used to make a die set specificly for loading wadcutters that had a longer spud to expand the case for the full length of the wadcutter.