44 Mag accuracy/leading issues...

[Stick_man]

One thing that kind of caught my eye about the OP that has not even been mentioned (unless I missed it) is the use of a lot of the Alox lube. I have never had good luck using heavy coats of LLA. It has always been very dirty to shoot. Putting just a touch on the boolits, just enough to coat them but not really enough to darken the boolits will help clean your load up considerably. Also, I like the 45/45/10 Recluse recipe for tumble lubing. 1200-1300 fps shouldn't be a problem for it if your boolit is appropriately sized.

[gray wolf]

I guess a little thread drift here will be OK,
seems we are bringing up some good points. A little has been said about the size of the front band on the 429421 bullet. Mine are undersized, and I have seen some full size ( M&P molds 503 copy )
I have been told that a loaded round will drop to the bottom of the chamber and be off set because of the loose fit in the chamber. ( not centered )
However if the front band is throat size it will support the round and offer it a straight path to the forcing cone. ( true/ false ? / don't know? )
My bullets are a snug fit if I push them through the throats from the front of the cylinder.
However I did a little test and loaded some dummy rounds with the bullets way out. ( full front band/ not undersize ) I still could not see support if I wiggled the bullet from the front of the cylinder. ( so what's up with that )?
Does this say that the throats are in fact tapered front to back ?
back being bigger ?
I don't sit and fret all this stuff but I find all these little bits of info very interesting.
Anyone have any insight ?

[44man]

GW, yes it can help to get a straighter start but I always questioned "how much?"
I went for a time neck sizing revolver brass and fitting to throats. After 2 or 3 firings the brass would get tight and I needed to FL anyway. Testing between them never showed me the full value and I have pretty large chambers and throats. Maybe, just maybe I shaved 1/2" from 50 yard groups, maybe once or twice but on average I can't see or shoot good enough to tell anyone they must do it.
Neither do I shoot super groups all the time, just enough to give some kind of average, some days things still fall apart.
Some of my best groups were shot with sloppy fits when I drop a round in the chamber. Great groups too with boolits as much as .0025" under throat. Seems as they just need to be groove size.
I found you need a good boolit nose to steer into the forcing cone and to maintain boolit integrity 100% throughout the pressure curve. Use the right powder and charge, the right primer that will not blow boolits loose from good case tension. You need an accurate lube. Hide from high velocity, find what shoots best. Each boolit has a need so if it shoots super at 1200 fps, it will not do good at 800 or 1400.
Then you need to twist your mouth just so, stick your tongue out to the left, never right, might help to twist it a little too!
I will not make you lint pick and hope some little thing will be your miracle, it is the whole package together. If your idea of fit works good for you, just add it to the rest of the important stuff, by itself, it is not complete. Like burning your chicken black before the meat is cooked!

[paul h]

It's my understanding that the Lyman 429421 is the effective last word on boolits for the 44spl/mag. Keith knew what he was doing when he designed it.

While I appreciate all that Elmer did in the name of big bore handguns, I personally believe that the ogival wadcutter aka LBT LFN shape is an excelent advancement over the swc. Asside from caliber sized holes in paper, I've yet to find anything a swc does better than an lfn shaped bullet.

[geargnasher]

One thing that kind of caught my eye about the OP that has not even been mentioned (unless I missed it) is the use of a lot of the Alox lube. I have never had good luck using heavy coats of LLA. It has always been very dirty to shoot. Putting just a touch on the boolits, just enough to coat them but not really enough to darken the boolits will help clean your load up considerably. Also, I like the 45/45/10 Recluse recipe for tumble lubing. 1200-1300 fps shouldn't be a problem for it if your boolit is appropriately sized.

Interesting. When I first read that I thought you must not have read any of the responses on the first page because almost every single one flagged LLA as a culprit, but you meant nobody mentioned the QUANTITY used on the boolits, you're right, I didn't notice much about that, either, although 45/45/10 was mentioned a few times. I tend to forget about over-doing the LLA because I only use Recluse lube when I tumble anymore, it works so much better. The lighter coats makes a huge difference, although I maintain that tumble-lubing ain't for the .44 Magnum.

Gear

[Theunsb]

My 2c worth.
Lee sizing die easily get under size using LLA to size.
Ranch Dog's tip of using WD40 for sizing boolits and then lubing it with LLA mixed with a thinning liquid worked for me 100%. Check up on his site and try his method. It worked for me once I had no more undersized boolits after sizing it.

[Jech]

45/45/10 had treated me extremely well with GC'd 170gr 30-30win at 2200fps, fullpower 357 magnum, 45auto, 40s&w, 9mm luger, 380auto, and 45 colt so I assumed it would continue it's success with 44magnum. Oh well!

I worked up my first batch of conventional lube this evening...1lb paraffin, 1lb vaseline and 2tbsp STP. We'll see how it does with the batch of air-cooled boolits I also made. Gonna try an 8gr Unique charge with a very mild crimp.

On a side note, had anyone had any success with Trailboss in 44mag?

[Jech]

Just got back from the range with my father, had a fantastic revolver afternoon!
I'm happy to report that my new load was a huge success! This time I used 10gr/Unique, CCI#300 primers, same Starline brass but the boolits were AC'd instead of WQ'd and lubed with conventional lube instead of 45/45/10. Crimp was also greatly reduced. Groups at 10 yards shrank from 6-8" to 2" if not ragged holes. My barrel looks great as well...only the slightest leading on the leading edges of the rifling where I don't think I cleaned very well before I went shooting. I was also pleasantly surprised to see this load chronograph at 1200fps when I was only expecting around 1000 by the load book. The only thing I didn't like was that the extreme spread was pushing 100fps...thinking about increasing the crimp again.

[44man]

Just got back from the range with my father, had a fantastic revolver afternoon!
I'm happy to report that my new load was a huge success! This time I used 10gr/Unique, CCI#300 primers, same Starline brass but the boolits were AC'd instead of WQ'd and lubed with conventional lube instead of 45/45/10. Crimp was also greatly reduced. Groups at 10 yards shrank from 6-8" to 2" if not ragged holes. My barrel looks great as well...only the slightest leading on the leading edges of the rifling where I don't think I cleaned very well before I went shooting. I was also pleasantly surprised to see this load chronograph at 1200fps when I was only expecting around 1000 by the load book. The only thing I didn't like was that the extreme spread was pushing 100fps...thinking about increasing the crimp again.

Sounds good to me. Just find the best load and then see what the chrono says.

[Char-Gar]

Sounds like you just about have it nailed. I bought a chrono 15 years ago and packed it up and put it away 14 years ago. To my way of thinking, how close the hole on the target are is far more important that how close the number on the display are.

[Jech]

I'm not obsessed about the numbers, I see a chronograph as just another tool to aid in load development. Much like a person can get by without a lead thermometer, digital powder scale, alloy hardness tester, etc but all these tools sure do make reloading easier and consistency more readily attained.

[Char-Gar]

Boy, I am 1 for 4. I dont use a Chronograph, I don't have a lead thermometer or digital powder scale. I do have a lead hardness tester though. I guess that is something, thought it seem very little.

I did know to use AC bullets and a good conventional lube and a better powder, so maybe all is not lost.

[gray wolf]

There's hope for all us older dudes.
Hey I put my old head band on today, still fits, then I weed whacked the grass.\
It's always nice to solve a shooting problem.
Char--you have a great way with words.

[44man]

There's hope for all us older dudes.
Hey I put my old head band on today, still fits, then I weed whacked the grass.\
It's always nice to solve a shooting problem.
Char--you have a great way with words.

You just HAD to do that, didn't you?
I am 74.5 and the yard needs whacked but it is going to be 97*, I need to cast but it is going to be 97*.
I want to shoot but ---97*!!!!!!
Hot flashes on a hot day with my glasses full of sweat so I can't even see grass.

[Char-Gar]

You just HAD to do that, didn't you?
I am 74.5 and the yard needs whacked but it is going to be 97*, I need to cast but it is going to be 97*.
I want to shoot but ---97*!!!!!!
Hot flashes on a hot day with my glasses full of sweat so I can't even see grass.

I guess after 70, you start to measure your life in full and half years. After 75, you measure in years and months. After 80, it is years and days. When do you start to count the hours?

I won't be 70 until the 16th of next month, so I am still in full year mode. I will change gears to the half year mode next month.

[popper]

I'd rather count Cb downrange than days or hours left, more accurate too. Don't think I'll cast when it gets over 100.

[Roosters]

Hell Car-Gar I ant but going on 59 and already when someone says this has a lifetime warranty it don’t mean much ???? And I think all that grass mowing is overrated 44man !!!!

[44man]

I told the wife to let the yard go to woods so I have more shooting time. Didn't go over well, she has tried to make it bigger.

[gray wolf]

Well I don't have a mower, just a weed whacker.
Let me tell you it's gettin tough to do the front, the back, and the two sides,
Swingin that sum bitchhh gets me tired.
I have threatened many a time to C-ment the whole spread.
That's about the time the fight usually starts. I guess it looks easy from the deck as a spectator.

[Floydster]

I found the 44 mag one of the easiest calibers to load for using cast bullets without leading. All is over hype is funny