fed up!

[bryonbush]

a while back i attempted to lube/size some 40's i casted up through my star. i wasnt getting consistant fill out and lube would be on the nose, or the base no matter how much i adjusted things. i wrote it off that its because im using a lee mold the the lube groove is pretty shallow after being sized. well, i now have a new NOE mold so that should fix the depth issue. last night i was at it for several hours only to have 5 bullets done correctly. im using air and heating the thing. the catch is... im doing nothing different than i did with my .45's and had ZERO issues then.

[ReloaderFred]

It's an adjustment issue. It takes very little up or down movement to change where the lube goes. Also make sure the holes that are plugged with lead shot are really closed tightly. If there's any leakage around the shot, that will cause lube to go where you don't want it.

Have you looked at the top punch adjustment instructions that Magma has posted on their website? They're pretty straight forward, as well as the video.

I have 5 Star lube sizers and size about 10 different diameters with them. It took awhile to get the knack for adjusting them properly, but once done, it goes very smoothly.

It can be frustrating, for sure. There were times in the past when I had to just walk away from it for awhile and then cool down and try it again. Now it's easy for me to change dies, top punches and bullets, but it wasn't so easy in the beginning.

Don't give up. Once you get the hang of it, it's worth it.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[Frozone]

I'm going to WAG this one.

Assuming the depth is set correctly.
Reduce your pressure and/or reduce the heat, then Slow Down. Let the lube pump do it's job at the bottom of the stroke.
You only want the resivor pressure to refill the lube pump not push lube into the grooves.
You get the lube on the nose/base when you are using the air/spring pressure to push the lube in, or when the heat is so high the lube oozes out between bullets.

[gravely]

I cast and size a couple different .38's and .45's and to make it easy to change the depth adjustment, I cut a dowel rod to represent the space between the punch and the top of the die. So when I change dies this spacer makes it real fast to get the right depth without measuring or remembering anything.

[Coconino]

Or use one of Lathsmiths locking nuts. Worth it not to mess with readjusting the depth.

[captaint]

Also, for convenience, just leave off the locking ring off the punch. This makes adjustments quick and easy. You'll see, the punch, once adjusted, doesn't move. Mark it with a Sharpie, just to check it out.. enjoy Mike

[6bg6ga]

Quote
Also, for convenience, just leave off the locking ring off the punch. This makes adjustments quick and easy. You'll see, the punch, once adjusted, doesn't move. Mark it with a Sharpie, just to check it out.. enjoy Mike


That won't work if you have a bullet feeder.

[bryonbush]

Tried it again starting off with no heat and little pressure. Would only get partial fill out. So I upped the pressure little by little. Still didn't have any luck. There would be a little pop sound then the bullets would almost launch out. Reduced the pressure to almost nothing then barely added some heat. Still no luck. I tried to keep a cool head while going this but its hard when nothing OS working out and its on the upper 80's with a fan on.

[6bg6ga]

byronbush

What lube are you using? I use a 50/50 beeswax and alox mixture. My heat is set at 72degrees and my pressure at 30 lbs.

My suggestion is this....first of all calm down take a deep breath and put yourself in the mindset that you will get this running.

I want you to first of all measure the pump stroke. Have someone work the press and you measure the stroke with a scale or vernier caliper. Record your finding on a tablet and post your finding here.

I will measure my stroke on my Magma and will ask others here to do the same so that we can come up with an average stroke length that works and rule out the possibility of the pump having a problem or the pump stroke has changed.


I opted to purchase several dies for my 45's. I have one die with single lube holes and a second die with holes for two lube grooves. This tells you how I feel about trying to pound shot into a lube hole to plug it or drill it out to prep the die for a different bullet. I hope that you recorded your depth setting for your 45's.

If you simply cannot get the depth correct and this is what it is sounding like to me then it is possible you will need to pull the die out and measure the depth needed in order to position the bullet correctly for a proper lube groove line up. You will then make sure you are located correctly by inserting a pin in the die hole and into the lube groove on the bullet. You will record the bullet depth setting as the bullet is still in the die....a measurement from the top of the die to the base of the bullet. This is what I ended up doing with my 230gr 45acps. I simply couldn't get the correct setting to come out right. After doing what I suggested to you I can size to my hearts content without problems. Everything that you have commented on I have experienced even to the point of destroying the machine. So calm down think carefully about what you are doing and you will triumph over the machine.

After getting the correct depth record your settings in several places. I always put something in a safe place and forget where the hell it is. You can then if you choose make a plug gauge that you can drop in after the bullet and simply flush the gauge with the top of the die. Pull the gauge out now and with the lock nut loose and the punch in the up position take the press to the lowest point and hold it. Then start lowering the punch to the point where you feel it stop on the bottom of the bullet. At that point tighten the lock nut and your done.

[Rockchucker]

Reloader-Fred posted the information below in another thread and it was the culprit. May not be your problem but you might check it out.

Quote:

Measure the diameter of the bullet above the lube groove. I have one of these molds that produces bullets with a .454" diameter base, but it's only .446" just above the lube groove at the edge of the groove. It was driving me crazy trying to size and lube them, so I bought another mold (different brand) and solved the problem.

[Frozone]

Ok, let's start from scratch.

What lube are you using?

You are using the top lube hole in the die, right? <sorry but have to ask.>

When you set depth you do go to the very bottom of the stroke? It won't activate the lube pump if you don't.

Here's how I set up the initial depth with a new die.

I use a wood dowel that fits in the die.
I measure from the bottom of the die to the top of the top lube hole and lightly mark that on the dowel.
I lay the boolit to be sized beside the dowel and align the edge of the lube groove closest to the base with the mark I made and make a new mark at the boolit base.
This is the depth needed .
Now install the die and push the dowel in the bottom until the mark is hidden.
Now cycle the sizer (No resivore pressure!) and adjust the punch until you just see the mark at the die bottom.
Depth set.

It takes longer to read this then actually do it.

<edit>

You know, The guy that makes that cool base / die remover (the one that screws in to the base) could add a really nifty accessory to that.
It would help set punch depth.
A removable piece that you can measure the die/boolit combo with and than remount to set punch depth.
</edit>

[bryonbush]

im gonna try it again tonight. the lube im using is my own little mix. i followed a lube formula on here when i made a bunch of it, just cant remember the name of it. forzone: come to think of it, i think im using the middle holes in the die. im gonna pull that first, try running on it on the top.
rockchucker: not the problem but i thought that may have been the problem at first thinking that they may have ben undersized but thats not the ussue.

[bryonbush]

tonights results: pulled out the die and found out that one of the top holes was not plugged. plugged the hole and put the die back in. once the die was in, i put the air line back on the star. when the ram was used and the pump was activated, i had lube comming out the top of the star, under the rim of the die. went back and turned down the air pressure to about 20 psi. i was not using any heat on the lube and its pretty hot in the garage. i made a small improvement tonight, but im still having gaps in the lube groove. its either i have too much pressure and get lube spewing out the top again, or not enough pressure to fill the grooves. now, when it does work, i have to put some bullets in multiple times to lube fully. i sure to appreiciate all of your help fellas.

[VHoward]

You did verify that you have the depth setting correct, didn't you? The lube groove needs to line up with the open holes in the die in order for the groove to fully fill. You might also want to check to make sure that one of the holes that is supposed to be open is not blocked.

[Tom Myers]

There would be a little pop sound then the bullets would almost launch out.

The popping sound is an indication that air is trapped in the lube column. Probably from inserting hollow lube sticks or stuffing chunks of lube into the reservoir when filling. These bubbles will cause inconsistent filling of the lube grooves.

When filing the lube reservoir, melt the lube in a double boiler so as to not overheat and ruin the lube. Then pour into the reservoir. For those that do not use an air adapter, don't fill it all the way up to the bleed hole or you will need to take some out before you can get the pressure spring and seal back in. After the lube cools back down to lubing temperature you may have to bleed out the existing air bubbles or continue lubing bullets until the bubbles are gone. After all the air bubbles are gone, the process will go much smoother.

Also, check the bullet top and bottom bands to make sure that an under-diameter band is not allowing lube to bleed past.

Hope this helps.

[bryonbush]

tom, i pour the liquid lube in just like you described. im going on a little vacation for a week so ill have to try again when i get back.

[runfiverun]

that pop is air.
your star might have an o-ring i think my newer one does, if you have lube coming out from under the die i'd bet that it has a nick in it.
no biggie they sell them at ace.
that will allow you to turn the pressure up and get a better fill out.
you can also check the little rod where the handle pushes on it at the top to activate the pump and adjust that outwards to make the handle action more of a size, cam over, lube, stroke.