30 cal @ 1700-1800 fps

[Larry Gibson]

A HP has a limited working range and is dependent on softening the alloy, which makes the bullet less accurate.

Out to the practical hunting range of 200 yards, maybe 250 with some cartridges, I've not found softer, amlleable alloyed hunting bullets to be really less accurate. I've also found the HP to enhance expansion across that range. The choice of which to use just really depends on the equiment available to the castor. I can HP any bullet with the Forster tool and can also double alloy with the moulds I have. Either way produces very good expanding hunting bullets. The 2 alloyed bullet is a good option with both working equally well. No real need to denegrate one to justify the other.

Larry Gibson

[Larry Gibson]

This is what the hp looks like it's pretty shallow so I don't think it would over expand.

Nice!

Larry Gibson

[1kshooter]

neat looking HP can't wait to see some animal pic's and hear storys of how they worked for you!
Jonathan

[Frank]

Larrry Gibson:

No real need to denegrate one to justify the other.

The SP provides the optimum wound channel through an unlimited working range. The HP needs the specific alloy and has a limited working range. If it is short range, it can cause too much damage.

[Larry Gibson]

Whatever you say Frank.................after all, what do I know about cast HPs......only been using them for 40+ years...........

Larry Gibson

[Frank]

Larry Gibson:

Whatever you say Frank.................after all, what do I know about cast HPs......only been using them for 40+ years...........

Larry Gibson

I'm just quoting what Veral Smith says. What he says in his book is backed by his own testing and that of thousands of customers who provided him with feedback on game performance. It is not just what I say. It is in the book and he even shows pictures of results. Where are yours?

[Hamish]

Another Option
A HP has a limited working range and is dependent on softening the alloy, which makes the bullet less accurate.

HUH? A softer alloy is less accurate??????

[Larry Gibson]

Larry Gibson:


I'm just quoting what Veral Smith says. What he says in his book is backed by his own testing and that of thousands of customers who provided him with feedback on game performance. It is not just what I say. It is in the book and he even shows pictures of results. Where are yours?

Quoting some one else with a product to sell????? That's obviously an objective opinion. I've no problem with Veral or his products BTW and understand advertising and "selling" your own product. Ever read an old Herter's catalog and you know what I mean by "selling".

Where are mine? Here's two examples with 3 deer showing the HPs, an entry and exit wound and the 3 dead deer for a starter, the 35-300-FN HP'd (M91 rebarreled to 35 Rem) with the Forster tool and the 311041 HP out of the Savage '06. Velocity for the 35 was 2150 and the '06 was at 2050 fps. Thought I'd also add the 1st deer I killed with the 311041HP out of a .308W, a blk tail in Oregon back in '69....who is that handsome young man........not quotes, just facts........

BTW; where's yours?

Larry Gibson

[Larry Gibson]

HUH? A softer alloy is less accurate??????

So says Frank.

Larry Gibson

[Frank]

That's the entrance and exit hole. How about a channel comparison? What a HP versus a SP does inside.

Quoting some one else with a product to sell?????

Everybody is selling something. Who has decades of experience making performance cast bullets molds used by thousands of hunters and bullet manufacturers all over the world? Someone who is in that position is certainly is in a position to tell us what works, why it works and what doesn't.

[Larry Gibson]

Frank

"Inside".....they both kill the deer. The heart and lungs were toast.

If you stop arguing a moot point and reread my post you'll see I said both bullet types worked. Just no need to denegrate one to justify the other is my comment. That refers to what you said and I did not state that Verals bullets do not work. Veral's bullets work just fine, so do HPs. There is no need to defend Verals bullet moulds. I can't make it any simpler than that for you Frank.


BTW; Where's your pictures of your hunting success? Please include entrance and exit wounds and what was done inside. Many of us with experience who have gutted any number of deer and noted such things understand that the entrance and exit wounds most often gives a clear picture of what went on inside the deer.

Larry Gibson

[troy_mclure]

I like how so many people think you need a special boolit design to kill deer. You are shooting thru some tough hide, possibly a hard 3/8" rib, and 2 spongy balloons, and back out.

The only reason you need a hp/sp or other fancy boolit is if you like to anchor the deer by shooting it in the shoulder.

[caseyboy]

To get back on topic. The picture in my avatar is a blacktail shot with a 321297 out of a M94 in 32WS. Shot distance was 50 to 60 yds. Flat point, AC range scrap, no GC at about 1300fps. In one side and out the other breaking the far side shoulder. Deader than Ceasar after a 60 yds run. If 1300fps can do it, 1700 to 1800 fps will work. Limit your distance as much as possible and put it where it counts. A bad shot with either a SP or a HP may not kill what you are aiming at!

[lead chucker]

My bullets have been right around 14-15 BHN and having the shallow hp I figure if the hp works great if it doesn't expand well then it's a flat point with a dimple in it. If the hp gets torn off well there should still be plenty of weight behind it to do the job. I will post picks if I am able to get the opportunity to shoot a black bear with this bullet. I like your pics Larry. I wish more people would post there pics. I try to remember and take the time to snap a couple pictures when I go hunting. It's always nice to look back on them. A while back I found a old pic of a black bear i shot and I had kind of forgot about it. After looking at the pic I could remember every thing about that hunt and that was 20 years ago.

[Frank]

Larry Gibson says:

Quoting some one else with a product to sell????? That's obviously an objective opinion. I've no problem with Veral or his products BTW and understand advertising and "selling" your own product. Ever read an old Herter's catalog and you know what I mean by "selling".

Veral's right about what he suggests and what is written in his book. I don't feel it is just advertising like you make it out. I have tried several things and he is right on! His molds are to perfection. I would bet on an LBT mold far outperforming any other mold. Take for instance the SP. What have we heard here about that? Not much. Guys pouring lead in little spickets to make the SP. Sounds like the dark ages. Veral book states, "Nope, not good. Best is to have a custom mold." And he spells it out in detail from A-Z. Who else does that? My hunting experience is limited due to my location. But I do plan to use my LBT bullets to get game at any range. I now have the tools to do the job.

[runfiverun]

frank:
that flyer is the lube.
looks like a cold bbl flyer.

Larry:
nice blacktails.
glad i wasn't the one pulling the lungs out of them.

chucker:
what you got will work just fine.

[miestro_jerry]

I use the RD TLC311-165-RF in my Marlin 336 30-30. With gas checks that I got from a group buy. I use WW 748 powder about 34 grains, I have chrono'd the bullet at 2,150 (avg for 12 boolets). My allow is WW with 10% additional range lead to make them softer. I use this combination for deer hunting and for offing coyotes.
Please note that I make a lube from Xlox, bees wax and one secret additive, that I warm up to a more liquid state before I dip the bullets in the lube, then let the lube harden.
This has been one of my best hunting loads over the last 5 years.

I am now going to have to try making a soft hollow point smaller bullet and the fill the rest of the mold with a different hardness of lead.

A bullet doesn't have to be harder to be more accurate, it can be softer. I will note that most of my hunting is at 150 yards or less.

Jerry

[caseyboy]

Nice group Frank. I get groups like that with my 7-08. Just about every shot touching at 100.

[Blammer]

not the 311299 but I used the 311284 at 1850 fps to kill a deer at 150 yds or so. One shot.
these are air cooled ww's.



Where the boolit struck.



average group for me at 100yds
with this projectile


the projectile, but NOT the lube I use

[richhodg66]

The 311284 shoots very well in my .30-06 with the Lyman ercommended most accurate load, I believe it is 22 grains of SR4759 if I recall correctly. I love that bullet and wondered if it would perform well in I cast it soft (my previous shooting with it has ben on paper and cast pretty hard).

May I ask what your loading was? I assume your rifle is an '06?

Playing around with the RD 311 165 grain bullet now and will get to shoot my first batch today in a Marlin lever gun. I had good results last season with the Ideal 31141 in the .30-30, but as it was a broad side shot at less than 10 yards, I don't think it was much of a test. I'd use that bullet again, no problem, but I've heard so many good things about the RanchDog and the ability to cast six at a time make me want to pursue it.