Great post. Thanks for the very detailed step by step. Im gonna try this for sure.
Great post. Thanks for the very detailed step by step. Im gonna try this for sure.
Hmmmmm, got coffee cans of berdan 7.62X54, 7.62X51. Gotta try this out. Thanks for posting this!
Larry, Now that's some thinking. I love it. My procedure for converting berdan to boxer cases is loads more real work.
Bravo!
Mike
Politicians should be limited to two terms.
1 in office. 1 in prison.
Converted the larger Berdan to LR Boxer primer pockets. Go to post #4 for details.
Larry Gibson
Hi Larry
I tried this but not having any luck
using a drill press and holding by hand the shell against the table.
Your tring to drill the anvil thats about the same size as the drill.
So before the anvil is drilled out the drill wanders off to the side??
turtle
Turtle,
You need to use as short a drill bit as you can. Longer drill bits wander very easily.
What you may want to try is to drill out the #18 hole and cut some off the top of the anvil.
Otherwise once you've made sure the divot in the spent primer is as close to center as possible you'll want to take very light cuts with the drill bit for the flash hole.
Hope that's some help.
Mike
Politicians should be limited to two terms.
1 in office. 1 in prison.
That's why you drill the centered flash hole 1st with the #43 - 45 dill using the firing pin indentation (or a recentered one) as the place to drill. The primer face holds the drill in place. If that is what you are doing then you are not holding the case solid enough ( holding by hand the shell against the table). I suggest putting the case in a vise and drilling the flash hole with a hand drill. I did 20 last night using the vise and hand drill with no "wandering" problems.
Larry Gibson
Drill the flash hole first before using the #18 to remove the base of the Berdan primer. Trust me, it works much better. The #43 - 45 drill takes off the tip of the anvil and makes a guide hole for the #18 to follow with the #18 then taking off the rest of the anvil. If not done that way the bit, even a short one, in a drill press with the case in a mill vise will wander off to the side.
Drill the flash hole first before using the #18 .....I can't reiterate that strong enough because if you don't you won't be happy with the results.
Larry Gibson
This subject comes up everytime ammo gets scarce or just plain too expensive. It can be done, but I find that sometimes my time shooting is taken over by doing these conversions. For me it's nice to know, but I will pay the highers prices and I have never found brass and primers to be scarce, but I keep at least a scouple of years worth of supplies on hand.
But thanks for the info.
Jerry
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NRA Benefactor Life Member
Larry, how do you control the depth? I finally got some 7.5 Swiss cases converted (made my own primer swage, I was so enthused.) But SR primers seat way too deep in them. Maybe .020 - .030 below the face of the case. They still fire, but this can't do ignition consistency any good. Haven't fired any with powder in the case yet.
In a Boxer pocket, the tips of the anvil seat against the bottom of the hole at the edges. In the Berdan pocket, there's no metal there - the edge of the pocket is far too deep, at least in my Swiss brass.
What do you think of leaving some of the Berdan anvil in place for the Boxer anvil to rest upon? It would block up the central hole, but the old Berdan holes are still there. Using a small end mill with a sleeve around it to control the depth to which the Berdan anvil is cut away would do. Final seating the Boxer primer would be a delicate business, but it could be done. Not with the traditional seating punch, but with one that would bear on the face of the case, and thus seat the primer exactly flush.
More special tools to make ! Life is good !
Phil W.
Cognitive Dissident
larry
you must be a master with the hand drill!!!
this is like trying to make hp into #6 bird shot !!!!!!!!!!!!
uscra112
Larry, how do you control the depth?
With the hand drill it is by feel. With the drill press the cases are held in the same position so the drill press stop controls the depth.
I finally got some 7.5 Swiss cases converted (made my own primer swage, I was so enthused.) But SR primers seat way too deep in them. Maybe .020 - .030 below the face of the case. They still fire, but this can't do ignition consistency any good. Haven't fired any with powder in the case yet.
In a Boxer pocket, the tips of the anvil seat against the bottom of the hole at the edges. In the Berdan pocket, there's no metal there - the edge of the pocket is far too deep, at least in my Swiss brass.
What do you think of leaving some of the Berdan anvil in place for the Boxer anvil to rest upon? It would block up the central hole, but the old Berdan holes are still there. Using a small end mill with a sleeve around it to control the depth to which the Berdan anvil is cut away would do. Final seating the Boxer primer would be a delicate business, but it could be done. Not with the traditional seating punch, but with one that would bear on the face of the case, and thus seat the primer exactly flush.
Give it a try. I've not done any 7.65 Swiss as i don't have one. Primer depth is fine in the 7.62x54R cases, the 8x57 cases and the 7.65 Argie cases i've tried so far.
Larry Gibson
More special tools to make ! Life is good !
Phil W.
OK, maybe I went off from half-cock. I went at it under 4x magnification tonight, and it's not what I thought.
The floor of the Berdan pocket at the outer edges measures .137 deep, as best I can do with three samples, a spent LR cup, and a caliper. They seat the cup of the Berdan primer on this floor. If I drill the Berdan post away until the edges of the 137 degree dimple I'm making with the #18 drill are just flush with the floor, then a SR primer can still seat on what's left of the floor, and be about .015" below flush. The firing pin of my K31 still hits it, and the primer is well supported, so my concerns about variance in ignition were groundless.
Still, depth control is key. If you leave .020 of the post there, the anvil of the SR primer will rest on the burr, and will not be solidly supported. Then there will be ignition variance. It will look good, because the face of the primer is flush, but it won't work good.
Last edited by uscra112; 03-06-2012 at 11:11 PM.
Cognitive Dissident
uscra112
I don't think "match prepped" primer pockets is goona happen, especially with me using a hand drill They look better when I use my drill press and mill tabel but still not going to be bench rest quality. Serviceable with several firings is what I was really looking for, hopuing for 15 - 20 firings So far the SR primer converted Albanian cases have been fired 5 times without a loss of case through split necks or the bushing coming out. Accuracy is on par with the same load using Norma cases with issue sights in my Finn M39, not sure milsurp rifles can tell the difference in primer pockets. I haven't chronographed or pressure tested the converted cases vs Norma cases with the same load yet to see if there is a difference in ignition with the SR vs LR primers. Of course I wouldn't expect any ignition difference in a test with the Bulgarian cases converted to LR boxer primers with the same LR primers used.
Go ahead and try the 7.65 cases and let us know the results. Are you converting to SR or LR bboxer primers?
Larry Gibson
I made a drill tool after aquiring several hundred 7.62-39s.
Its just a piece of hardware store 5/16 inch rod and a 1/16 inch drill bit w/ a number 6 lock screw drilled and tapped in. The rod centers in the case mouth and the drill centers in the base divot. While not perfect it works for me.
I drill only about 80% through the head then run the case through my sizing die as normal, I did have to turn my decaping pin down some to avoid sticking and further flash hole enlargement.
There is another thread somewhere that describes using a bearing press and ball bearing to swage the pocket down to LRP,that is the method I used for mine.
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A few weeks ago Dad converted some to 209 shotgun primers on his drill press, and it was kinda tedious.
So he brought the rest over and we used my lathe. He had Lee Loader hammer type reloading die for the cartridge. So we put the resizer die in the lathe chuck, and used a rubber mallet to tap the cases in the die. Then used a drill chuck in the tail stock, to drill them out, and an endmill to add a recess for the lip around the 209's. That made it quick, very consistent, and a clean looking job.
Awesome post!!! I saw this and started picking up the left over brass at the range I would have otherwise kicked to the side while picking up all the other brass I reload, I just converted 70 cases in last 2 days with a Dewalt hand drill and only had maybe 5 that walked on me, Sizing dies will be here tomorrow and I am exited to cast for this 7.62x54 I would have never planned to reload, I converted to LR primer so when I swaged the old primer wall it covered the old beredan primer flash holes.
I used a 5/64 for the flash hole and 3/32 to enlarge the hole, with a drill its easy to feel when it is ready to break the surface for the larger hole, it will grab then I stop grab the case and pull it as I turn the drill and it finishes the hole and pops right out, keep in mind doing all the cutting at lower speeds actually cut better and faster.
Do you think this will work with 45 ACP cases as well?
mrhoward69 - calboolitcaster
Here's how I convert the berdan to boxer on a mini lathe (case in the chuck):
1. Drill a hole thru the primer with a center drill deep enough to drill thru the berdan anvil that it's flush with primer pocket bottom. With my center drill it means drilling almost all the way to where straight drill turns into 45 degree.
2. Ream the hole with primer pocket reamer held in the rear center chuck.
I don't drill a new flash hole because there are 2 flash holes already in berdan case.
This requires only 2 operations after which the case is ready to be primed.
BP | Bronze Point | IMR | Improved Military Rifle | PTD | Pointed |
BR | Bench Rest | M | Magnum | RN | Round Nose |
BT | Boat Tail | PL | Power-Lokt | SP | Soft Point |
C | Compressed Charge | PR | Primer | SPCL | Soft Point "Core-Lokt" |
HP | Hollow Point | PSPCL | Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" | C.O.L. | Cartridge Overall Length |
PSP | Pointed Soft Point | Spz | Spitzer Point | SBT | Spitzer Boat Tail |
LRN | Lead Round Nose | LWC | Lead Wad Cutter | LSWC | Lead Semi Wad Cutter |
GC | Gas Check |