Choice For Grizzlies

[waksupi]

I would take a smaller gun and a dog over a larger gun and no dog. The best grizzly fights are the ones that never happen, and a good dog in the woods is an awful effective early warning system.

I have said it before, A DOG WILL BRING A BEAR RIGHT TO YOU AT HIGH SPEED! The bear will chase the dog, and guess who the dog comes to?

[JeffinNZ]

This reminds me of the two lion hunters preparing for the day. One guy is putting on a pair of running shoes and his mate says "There's no point wearing them, you'll never outrun the lion." The reply came "I don't have to outrun the lion, I just have to outrun YOU."

[Bret4207]

I would just use my Walker Texas Ranger/Crocodile Dundee like skills to hypnotize the bear and make him sleepy. It's very easy to do after he's had a full meal.......

[captain awesome]

The most important thing for self defense in all situations is between your ears.

Hair?

[Jammer Six]

I would just use my Walker Texas Ranger/Crocodile Dundee like skills to hypnotize the bear and make him sleepy. It's very easy to do after he's had a full meal.......

Not sure that's a good example-- the real life Crocodile Dundee lost the last gunfight he was in...

Just sayin'...

[Sonnypie]

He wasn't in "a fight".
He was playing with a sting ray.
You screw with the bull, you get the horn.
Or tease the ray, you get the sting.

For bear...
The 46" HDTV.
I'll watch from afar...

I voted for a HP rifle.
I'm disappointed nobody voted for the small dog, nor the 9mm.... Oh well!

[ubetcha]

You forgot scream like a little girl.

[jandbn]

If anybody is still thinking pepper spray, it may not be the answer. I heard stories when living in AK, but never talked to anybody who actually had a bear encounter of any kind.

Anyway, here is a quote from the Alaska Science Forum:

"Three of the sprayed brown bears ended up attacking and injuring the sprayer anyway"

[429421Cowboy]

Reminds me of a ranch i worked at a few winters back on the Rocky Mountain Front. Plenty of grizzlys up there and they cause their share of trouble, but not as bad as a person might think. There always were a few around to eat the dead calves out of the "bone pile" as they call it. The guy we were working for told me that they had a bear switch from dead calves coming up to the shopyard to steal chickens and tear apart the coop to get eggs so he came up with a plan. He took a full can of bear spray, taped some old denim jean scraps to it, soaked the rags in honey and left it outside the henhouse. Next morning there was an empty can with teeth marks in it, never had trouble with bears again!

[Jammer Six]

He wasn't in "a fight".
He was playing with a sting ray.

He (the guy the character was based on) shot it out with cops out in the outback and lost.

He fought the law and the law killed him.

[shotstring]

There was a study that came out either this year or last year of all the bear attacks, both Grizzly and Black Bear. The ONLY defense that never failed in any one of the encounters, be it Grizzly or Black Bear, was pepper spray. When sprayed in the face, the bear has always stopped his attack and allowed the person to exit stage left.

On the other hand, those using firearms, both handgun and rifle, failed on several occasions. One of the main reasons sited for this is the difficulty in hitting a rather small target that is coming at you like a freight train especially at close range.

On the other hand, the bear spray spreads out like shotgun with a massive choke, making it next to impossible to miss the bear's head if the person doesn't lose his nerve and actually draws and fires the pepper spray.

I'm just sayin'....them's the facts. Personally, before seeing this, I would have leaned towards carrying both pepper spray AND a firearm, but then, if the pepper spray didn't work, it would be a little late for a firearm. Still, I would lean toward pepper spray first and if I became that first statistic that it didn't work for, and if I remained conscious with a bears jaws wrapped around part of my anatomy, hopefully I could still draw a pistol or revolver and still save the day.

By the same token, since pepper spray is more reliable than firearms, I would be giving myself the best chance to live by using spray rather than shooting. If the spray didn't work, although this has never happened, absolutely no one would then fault me for using a handgun provided I had tried the recommended pepper spray first.

[Jammer Six]

The other point is that if you're in a group of three, with a little luck, at least two cones of pepper are in the air.

The story above is the first one I've read in which multiple handguns came into play. I hope my buddy would do the same, but I'm dead certain that my wife and friends would bring pepper into play without hesitation. I'm not so certain they would all make the decision and open fire.

The decision cycle is much faster if the weapon you're going to deploy is pepper spray.

[Artful]

There was a study that came out either this year or last year of all the bear attacks, both Grizzly and Black Bear. The ONLY defense that never failed in any one of the encounters, be it Grizzly or Black Bear, was pepper spray. When sprayed in the face, the bear has always stopped his attack and allowed the person to exit stage left.

On the other hand, those using firearms, both handgun and rifle, failed on several occasions. One of the main reasons sited for this is the difficulty in hitting a rather small target that is coming at you like a freight train especially at close range.

perhaps you should read the link above
http://www2.gi.alaska.edu/ScienceForum/ASF12/1245.html

Stephen Herrero said Pepper Spray Works, yes, but don't bet your life on it. Herrero, a researcher with the University of Calgary, presented results of a pepper spray study in Fairbanks recently during the Tenth International Conference on Bear Research and Management. He and Andrew Higgins combed North America for 66 examples of what happened in the field when bears were hit with a snout full of pepper spray.

Their study included black bears and brown (grizzly) bears in a variety of pre-spray moods that ranged from curious to aggressive. All of the bears had been sprayed with the type of pepper sprays found at sporting goods stores---a tubular canister containing propellant and 10 percent capsiacin, a toxic chemical extracted from red peppers that acts as a powerful irritant to respiratory systems and eyes. Because pepper spray can be aimed and shot several body lengths away, it gives people a skunk-like ability to ward off aggressors such as other people and snarling dogs. But the spray's effectiveness on bears in the wild hadn't been evaluated until the recent study.

In the 16 cases Herrero and Higgins looked at in which pepper spray was used against brown bears in sudden encounters, 15 brown bears turned away after receiving a direct blast to the eyes and nose. Three of the sprayed brown bears ended up attacking and injuring the sprayer anyway, but Herrero said it didn't appear a face full of pepper made the bears any more aggressive than they normally would have been.

Of 20 brown bears sprayed while searching for human food, garbage, or just appearing overly curious, Herrero and Higgins found all 20 stopped what they were doing, and 18 left (only two of those 18 came back later).

Blasted black bears didn't seem as affected by the spray, especially those with a taste for garbage. Nineteen of 26 black bears sprayed while acting curious or searching for human food and garbage stopped what they were doing, and 14 of 26 bears left the area. But six of those 14 came back.

"The spray appears ineffective as a means of deterring black bears that are strongly conditioned to human foods and garbage," Herrero said.

Pepper spray also didn't send black bears running in the four cases where people sprayed them after aggressive sudden encounters. Although it stopped the black bears' aggressive behavior in all four cases, none of them left the area. Herrero said although their sample size of their study was too small for bombproof conclusions, black bears seem to be more resistant to the physiological effects of pepper spray than brown bears.

Herrero, author of the 1985 book Bear Attacks: Their Causes and Avoidance, has studied bears since long before pepper sprays became popular in the 1980's. He said he raised his eyebrows at some of the study results, such as how consistently pepper spray turned back brown bears. But he also pointed out the sprays can become useless or even debilitating to the user in a strong wind. Rain and thick brush also cause delivery problems.

He said to rely on the spray as protection while ignoring other bear country essentials---such as storing food out of reach of bears or in bear-proof containers and making noise in thick brush--is just plain stupid. "This stuff isn't brains in a can," he said.

[Mooseman]

I just Love these armchair Grizzly Bear fighters sitting at the keyboards pretending to know wild animals. Until you Live in Alaska outside of the cities and you fish, and hunt and hike the wilderness and mountains Like I have for almost 30 years , don't try to convince me to carry" Preppie spray". True Alaskans Carry Guns...even the women carry guns . At least over 50 people know the right answer on this Barney Fife poll...

The rest need to stay in the safety of their crime watch neighborhoods and out of Alaska !!! Your pepper spray residue , tennis shoes and little bells are starting to litter our Landscape !

[XWrench3]

actually, the answer i really wanted was not on there. the CORRECT answer is......... a HOWITZER!

[waksupi]

Yep, I see why Jammer lives in a city.

[Recluse]

Random thoughts--

• I've had three bear encounters fairly up close and personal. Score at present is Recluse 3, Bears 0. The combination of gunpowder and metal projectile expended multiple times through use of a rifled boom stick gave me the edge I needed.

• My bear encounters were with inferior bears from the lower 48, and even more inferior, in the high mountains of Colorado. The one in Maine didn't count--the German Shepherds ran it off before I could shoot it, otherwise the score would be Recluse 3.5, Bears 0.

• If I were to ever encounter a serious grizzly with an attitude, I think I'd prefer one of our old HH-53 Pave Lows with the .30 cal minigun and I think I'd prefer to be flying rather than shooting because there is something about a grizzly bear that just doesn't sit well with me.

• I've been to Alaska a few times. The locals I knew laughed at pepper spray. Two of them I met carried Easy-Off oven cleaner with them. Cruel? Hell, yes. Effective? They're still walking up right and breathing after a very upclose and very personal encounter with a grizzly. Funny thing is, we also told women in Miami and New Orleans to carry a can of Easy Off in their cars as a defense against car-jackings back in the 80's.

• When I was in the Air Force and stationed up in northern Utah, we met some Wyoming ranchers who traded us unrestricted hunting and fishing privileges in exchange for us doing some cowboying for them. We started having a bit of a bear (and wolf) problem. Those old ranchers imported some dogs from overseas--I know, because we flew them in on undeclared MAC flights. Three Komondor and two Tibetan Mastiffs and the critter problems were over. One Komondor is bad enough--two are simply indefeatable. Same with those Tibetan Mastiffs--biggest, most ferocious dogs I've ever seen. We started finding random wolf carcasses, lots of yote carcasses and even several bear carcasses. Word got out, I guess, because we quit taking losses.

• When I'd go camping every summer in the high mountains of Colorado, I always took at least one of the Dobermans with me. Bears--and two-legged critters--can be pretty sneaky, but that dog heard all. Early warning was all I needed.

• I have zero qualms about shooting and killing anything that means me harm. People who tell me "you're in the bear's territory" are idiots. I, as man, rule the earth and so long as I'm smarter than any furry or fishy foes out there, I'll decide whose territory it is. I absolutely believe in co-existing, but because I mean no bear no harm (I do not hunt them, have no desire to hunt them, do not like the taste of bear meat, but do confess to having the occasional urge for a bearskin rug), it is the bear who decides it cannot co-exist with me, and therefore it will be the bear who perishes. Darwin's law. (Rattlesnakes and sharks are the exception--I'll go out of my way to kill a venomous snake as well as pretty much ANY shark.)

[prs]

Best defense is no be there. I said someone else with sharp stick, but only if they are slower than I.

prs

[Crash_Corrigan]

Bret: Along with your Walker Texas Ranger/Croccodile Dundee training ya forgot to mention your Supercool Ninja Warrior Fighting Costume with cape and your 50BMG Walking stick/sword cane and Buckshot's casting jock strap.

The smell of the jock should have the bear retreating PDQ................that's if ya can pry it away from Buckshot.....

[DanWalker]

I can think of two fairly recent instances where people were mauled here locally that had bear spray. In their back packs. That is where it usually is.

The cute little neoprene belt holsters make it nearly IMPOSSIBLE to get the pepper spray out with any quickness anyhow. I've got a standing bet with numerous people that I can stand 60 feet away, and when they say go, if they can spray me in the face with their bear spray before I can running tackle them, I'll give them 100 bucks. I'm good friends with lots of people who spend a great deal of time in bear country and have regular run ins with them. An old customer of mines son had to kill a grizz in self defense about 6 years ago. He shot it in the face at 10 feet while firing his 300WSM elk rifle from the hip. He wan't trying to be John Wayne. He just didn't have time to aim, because the bear was on him so quickly. He fired the rest of the mag DOWN into the top of the bears head, as it hit the ground at his feet. Being a smart guy, he called out to his brothers and had them come take LOTS of pics because he knew there was gonna be a big stink over it. I saw some of the pics, and they will give you chills when you see the bears head, and Bud's sons footprints on either side of it, and about a foot in front of it. His experience with the Federal game warden that responded to their call was quite positive. He said the guy looked at all the physical evidence and agreed that he was totally justified in what he did. They had to fill out some paperwork, but that was it. no harm, no foul.
We hunt and camp in Grizzly country. The area Southeast of Yellowstone NP has a huge concentration of bears, and is also where the problem bears from the park are relocated to. We keep 870's loaded with Brenneke slugs and 3" mag 00 buckshot. The Brenneke's are said to be harder than normal foster type slugs. My friends uncle camped near us 2 years ago and had a grizz come into his camp at night to eat the horse feed grain he forgot to put up before he went to bed. He ran it out of camp with some harsh language. YUP! He's an idiot. He's been around the mountains for nearly 60 years now, and Wyoming hasn't killed him yet...