Leading-Revolvers vs Autos

[MtGun44]

This would mean that you have some of the full diameter portion of the boolit more than
.096 forward of the front of the chamber proper?! What boolit design are you talking about
here? The front of the chamber (.380 diam) ends at 1.3019" and the throat (.358 diam)
starts at 1.3986. Subtract the two and you have 0.0967". A case I grabbed is 1.274"
long, so it is 0.1246" short of the .358" start of the throat. We would need about 1/8"
of full diameter portion ahead of that case to just touch, but not enter the throat.

As I said, the .358 throat starts (on the spec drawing) at 1.398". I have a .357 mag reload of
mine with a 358429 Keith in it and the front edge of the front driving band is at ~1.391", or .007"
short of the start of the throat. This is what I am talking about EXACTLY.

My random example case measures 1.274 (have not looked up the trim length; never trim my
pistol brass) and measured the front driving band length of a 358477 at .081", so that combo
would put the front edge of the front driving band at ~1.355", or about 0.043" short of the
throat proper.

I have no idea how you are getting boolit full diameter portions into the throat unless you have
some sort of a design with VERY long full diameter portions ahead of the brass. Maybe some
LBT style designs have that much full diam fwd of the case, I have not checked my Lee 358-158 RF
which is not a real LBT, but is "LBT-style".

Keith explains his design intent clearly in his writings, and it is neat to see that his design puts
the front corner .007" from the start of the throat, which meets his goal if minimizing the jump
for the boolit, getting it guided by the throat before it leaves the case.

Bill

[cbrick]

In my 357 match revolver I shoot the RCBS 180 gr silhouette @ 188 gr.

My Ruger 45 Colt is the same situation, all 6 throats slug .452", my most common bullet in this is the MP 270 SAA and the front driving band chambers fully inside the throats when crimped in the crimp groove. Again, either seat very deep or find a lighter bullet or use a mild snug fit in the throats.

Rick

[Char-Gar]

This is getting somewhat tiresome. all, I will say is this morning I went out and fired 50 Rounds through my Lipsey's 45 Flatop. The 45 Colt load was RCBS 270 SSA (acutal weight 283 grains) over 20/H4227. The bullets were sized .454 and the cylinder throats are a uniform .452. Each round slide in without effort and accuracy was first class.

Slip in the 45 ACP cylinder than things are different. There is no taper into the throats and any cast bullet must be small enough to slip into the throat. It won't take some of the loads I used in my 1911.

[MtGun44]

Chargar - I have the same situation. Never had any issue with oversized boolits until I tried .456 in my
Colt 1917 Army. No apparent taper between the throat (.455) and the chamber. It is an autopistol
chamber in a revolver - a significant anomoly.

Cbrick - I gave you a bunch of specifics but you make no comment on how you manage to
reach the throat in your revolvers. How about some actual dimensions that we can compare
to a SAAMI diagram? I think I have showed that it is extremely difficult to actually reach
the throats in a SAAMI .357 mag. How about showing some dimensions about how you
actually accomplish what you claim? I am absolutely ready to learn if you can show me how
this is happening, so far - I see it as highly improbable and you offer no clear explanation.

I'll have to do some measuring when I get home after T-day, on the road now with no guns, tools or
ammo to measure. Since the 270 SAA follows Keith's design, I start off doubting what you claim, unless
you mean the smaller diameter nose is in the throat, which is correct. The front driving band is in
the tapered transition, I'll wager - and this is specifically what Elmer intended, NOT in the throat.
Perhaps there are some non-SAAMI chamber out there?

I have a 270 SAA MP clone mold and a Ruger .45 ACP/LC Blackhawk, so I should
be able to see what they do when I get home.

Bill

[ColColt]

All I remember is they started out drawing symbols for - IIRC - man, woman, life, death, infinity
or something like that. I only really remember "man" "woman" and "infinity" but
think there were more.

I guess this was the first of the 'doctor shows'.

Bill

Bill- It was man, woman birth, death and infinity...remember it well. (born Valentine's Day '46. On Medicare and just signed up for SS so, I'm officially an old timer now).

[462]

ColColt,
My son was born Valentine's Day '76. A great-aunt was born Valentine's Day, as well.

[MtGun44]

1951, just 5 short of SS age. Where have the years gone?

Bill

[Char-Gar]

1942 here

[ColColt]

I thought I was special being born on Valentine's Day...I reckon I'm not alone. My sister was born on Labor Day-heck of a day to be born on.

I really feel like an old timer now. Last February I was prompted to sign up for Medicare but I didn't take SS at that point. Now that I have that too and get AARP magazines and burial insurance offers, that doesn't leave much to the imagination.

Just one day-just for 24 hours I'd like to feel like I did at 18. Back when there was no Cialas and sure wasn't any need for it...remember? Would someone like to join me in a few bars of Precious Memories?

[357shooter]

Dang, and I thought dirt was old!

[ColColt]

Dang, and I thought dirt was old!

I'm the one that made Moses' sandals!!

[ColColt]

I figured I may as well continue this saga with the Ruger GP101 rather than start fresh with a new thread so, here's the story. I took it out today since receiving it back a second time from the smith and I took two different batches of reloads. One was 7.5 gr of HS-6 and the Lee 158 gr boolit and 5.5 gr of Universal.

Leading was nearly in the same place as before-between 6-9 o'clock at the beginning of the rifling. So, I quit. I'm not fooling with this anymore. I had seen the smith while waiting in line to get a lane and he asked how it was doing and I told him I didn't know yet as today was the first time I had a chance to try it again. After taking my bore light 24 rounds later and looking into the cone area and seeing what I did, I didn't bother to take it back to him a third time. So, I'll consign it to the case it came in and tuck it away somewhere. I should have gotten a 686.

[MtGun44]

Without going back thru the whole thread, did you try firelapping?

Bill

[Reload3006]

have you thoroughly checked the cylinder throat to see if it had burrs ... this causes a lot of miss diagnosed leading problems... I think midway sells a polishing kit for that I know that brownells does.

[Char-Gar]

I don't blame you for being frustrated and selling that sixgun down river. The level of angst can get so high it takes the joy out of owning the revolver. I hope you have better luck with another brand of sixgun.

[geargnasher]

Ok, so it still leads (did anyone bother to check timing and crane alignment?), but the real question is how did it shoot?

Gear

[ColColt]

I did try fire lapping early on, Bill. I also shot a bunch of jacketed boolits through it before the smith saw the pistol.

The throats are not what you'd call S&W smooth(what Ruger is?) but not bad and I detected no burrs.

Gear-It shot pretty good. Not any better than before but no worse either. I was sorely disappointed after shooting just 20 rounds and running a wet patch followed by a dry one that the bore light showed the same leading as before-and, I'm out $50 for nothing gained. It's till in my range bag from yesterday. I haven't even bothered to clean it.

[ShinyPartsUp]

....I have several Rugers that lead there also, along with Smiths.
Okay, now a confession, I reload as many here do. I buy cheap jacketed bullets and shoot a cylinder full after I shoot my real Boolits. Makes cleaning easier....

First, to the OP, I'm sorry for all your troubles. I read the entire thread with interest, and learned quite a bit. Not much solace to you, but it was a valuable learning experience.

Since this thread has gone astray once or twice, I take the liberty to quote the poster above. I did the same in a GP100 after a hundred or so commercial cast bullets in test loads and plinkers caused some leading. Worked really well and my groups tightened up again. Cleaning was no worse than ever. But I got grief on another forum for potentially ruining my barrel through burnishing and micropores in the barrel being ruined with lead or some such. Is this a religion issue (no true "answer" but lots of faith expressed)? Is this not a good practice of mixing lead with copper jacketed bullets?

[geargnasher]

Ruger barrels, especially their stainless steel barrels, seem to be just about indestructable. As far as shooting copper after lead, I figure that calling it a "religion issue" is extremely accurate. As for me, my religion prohibits firing of copper-jacketed bullets in any of my guns, except in extreme cases where I can do so to check the "baseline" accuracy or other dire circumstance where immediately afterward I seek the priestess of the Foul Out III and be forgiven of my sins.

Gear

[Char-Gar]

Gear...We go to the same church!