The feasibility of gunsmithing for a living?

[Stockcarver]

JD-- Yes, it's possible. But a few points of advice:

1. Do not go into debt to do it.
2. Always return phone calls.
3. Develop an affinity for beans and potatoes.
4. Make sure your work is PERFECT. Even the parts the customer can't see. Otherwise you'll get the reputation as a hack, and you'll be paid accordingly.
5. Do not work on cheap, obscure .22 rimfires regardless of how hungry you are.
6. You'll be spending just as much time doing things that don't pay as doing things that do. (Paperwork, errands, shipping/receiving, etc.) Be prepared to dedicate at least 40 hours per week to each.
7. Price your work based on what you have to have for your time, AND STICK TO IT. There are a lot of cheapskates out there who will expect you to do that rails-off restoration on that old Winchester 1892 for pennies. These are the same guys that would go to the gallows ******** about the fact that the hangman used a new rope. The sooner you can weed those out, the happier you will be.
8. And finally, be prepared for the reality that you're taking something you love and turning it into work.

Other than that, it's a piece of cake. Cheers!

Very Good Advice from S.R. Custom!

Being able to survive doing gun work is tough.

Only work on high end items. Weed out the cheap work.

Do nothing for free. Friends and relatives are time stealers.

The old advice concerning starting a business, what ever it is: You must have a minumum of a full year reserve of cash to live on before you open shop. Three years is better.

Biggest cause of failure in the custom gun world is starting out under capitalized.

Do not buy tools and machinery on credit!!

Do not buy supplies such as barrels and actions and stock blanks with a credit card!!!

If you do not have the capital up front to sustain the business you are doomed to failure. You will just be running a Ponzi scheme.

Got a wife and kids? Keep the real job and only do gun work part time.

Learn all the rules and regulations for gun work and running a small business. Your neighborhood may even have a restriction on small business. City Hall and the Court House are your friends, pay both a visit and find out what is required. Get involved with your nearest ATF office and talk with an agent.

Security, security, security. No one but yourself and your designated representative should have access to the firearms, parts, and ammo/reloading supplies. Don't have a big safe? Start saving money.

If you do it right, you may build a nice business.

[wills]

Uh, not wanting to start a fight, but where is the homestead state where you are immune from lawsuits

If the state has homestead laws YOU are not “immune from lawsuits”. However some of your real and personal property is not subject to execution. Below are some of the provisions in my jurisdiction.

Texas Constitution Article 16
Sec. 50. HOMESTEAD; PROTECTION FROM FORCED SALE; MORTGAGES, TRUST DEEDS, AND LIENS. (a) The homestead of a family, or of a single adult person, shall be, and is hereby protected from forced sale, for the payment of all debts except for1) the purchase money thereof, or a part of such purchase money;(2) the taxes due thereon;(3) an owelty of partition imposed against the entirety of the property by a court order or by a written agreement of the parties to the partition, including a debt of one spouse in favor of the other spouse resulting from a division or an award of a family homestead in a divorce proceeding;(4) the refinance of a lien against a homestead, including a federal tax lien resulting from the tax debt of both spouses, if the homestead is a family homestead, or from the tax debt of the owner;(5) work and material used in constructing new improvements thereon, if contracted for in writing, or work and material used to repair or renovate existing improvements thereon ifA) the work and material are contracted for in writing, with the consent of both spouses, in the case of a family homestead, given in the same manner as is required in making a sale and conveyance of the homestead;

This continues at great length and may be read in its entirety at http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.u...ighlightType=1

The homestead is:
Sec. 51. AMOUNT OF HOMESTEAD; USES. The homestead, not in a town or city, shall consist of not more than two hundred acres of land, which may be in one or more parcels, with the improvements thereon; the homestead in a city, town or village, shall consist of lot or contiguous lots amounting to not more than 10 acres of land, together with any improvements on the land; provided, that the homestead in a city, town or village shall be used for the purposes of a home, or as both an urban home and a place to exercise a calling or business, of the homestead claimant, whether a single adult person, or the head of a family; provided also, that any temporary renting of the homestead shall not change the character of the same, when no other homestead has been acquired; provided further that a release or refinance of an existing lien against a homestead as to a part of the homestead does not create an additional burden on the part of the homestead property that is unreleased or subject to the refinance, and a new lien is not invalid only for that reason. NOTE: The joint resolution amending Sec. 51 in 1983 included a section that did not purport to amend the constitution and that provided the following: "This amendment applies to all homesteads in this state, including homesteads acquired before the adoption of this amendment."

In addition to homestead there are personal property exemptions:

PROPERTY CODE
TITLE 5. EXEMPT PROPERTY AND LIENS
SUBTITLE A. PROPERTY EXEMPT FROM CREDITORS' CLAIMS
CHAPTER 42. PERSONAL PROPERTY

Sec. 42.001. PERSONAL PROPERTY EXEMPTION. (a) Personal property, as described in Section 42.002, is exempt from garnishment, attachment, execution, or other seizure if:
(1) the property is provided for a family and has an aggregate fair market value of not more than $60,000, exclusive of the amount of any liens, security interests, or other charges encumbering the property; or
(2) the property is owned by a single adult, who is not a member of a family, and has an aggregate fair market value of not more than $30,000, exclusive of the amount of any liens, security interests, or other charges encumbering the property.
(b) The following personal property is exempt from seizure and is not included in the aggregate limitations prescribed by Subsection (a):
(1) current wages for personal services, except for the enforcement of court-ordered child support payments;
(2) professionally prescribed health aids of a debtor or a dependent of a debtor;
(3) alimony, support, or separate maintenance received or to be received by the debtor for the support of the debtor or a dependent of the debtor; and
(4) a religious bible or other book containing sacred writings of a religion that is seized by a creditor other than a lessor of real property who is exercising the lessor's contractual or statutory right to seize personal property after a tenant breaches a lease agreement for or abandons the real property.
(c) Except as provided by Subsection (b)(4), this section does not prevent seizure by a secured creditor with a contractual landlord's lien or other security in the property to be seized.
(d) Unpaid commissions for personal services not to exceed 25 percent of the aggregate limitations prescribed by Subsection (a) are exempt from seizure and are included in the aggregate.
(e) A religious bible or other book described by Subsection (b)(4) that is seized by a lessor of real property in the exercise of the lessor's contractual or statutory right to seize personal property after a tenant breaches a lease agreement for the real property or abandons the real property may not be included in the aggregate limitations prescribed by Subsection (a).
Acts 1983, 68th Leg., p. 3522, ch. 576, Sec. 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1984. Amended by Acts 1991, 72nd Leg., ch. 175, Sec. 1, eff. May 24, 1991; Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 1046, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1997.
Amended by:
Acts 2007, 80th Leg., R.S., Ch. 444, Sec. 1, eff. September 1, 2007.

Sec. 42.002. PERSONAL PROPERTY. (a) The following personal property is exempt under Section 42.001(a):
(1) home furnishings, including family heirlooms;
(2) provisions for consumption;
(3) farming or ranching vehicles and implements;
(4) tools, equipment, books, and apparatus, including boats and motor vehicles used in a trade or profession;
(5) wearing apparel;
(6) jewelry not to exceed 25 percent of the aggregate limitations prescribed by Section 42.001(a);
(7) two firearms;
(8) athletic and sporting equipment, including bicycles;
(9) a two-wheeled, three-wheeled, or four-wheeled motor vehicle for each member of a family or single adult who holds a driver's license or who does not hold a driver's license but who relies on another person to operate the vehicle for the benefit of the nonlicensed person;
(10) the following animals and forage on hand for their consumption:
(A) two horses, mules, or donkeys and a saddle, blanket, and bridle for each;
(B) 12 head of cattle;
(C) 60 head of other types of livestock; and
(D) 120 fowl; and
(11) household pets.
(b) Personal property, unless precluded from being encumbered by other law, may be encumbered by a security interest under Subchapter B, Chapter 9, Business & Commerce Code, or Subchapter F, Chapter 501, Transportation Code, or by a lien fixed by other law, and the security interest or lien may not be avoided on the ground that the property is exempt under this chapter.
Acts 1983, 68th Leg., p. 3522, ch. 576, Sec. 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1984. Amended by Acts 1991, 72nd Leg., ch. 175, Sec. 1, eff. May 24, 1991; Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 216, Sec. 1, eff. May, 17, 1993; Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 30.245, eff. Sept. 1, 1997; Acts 1999, 76th Leg., ch. 414, Sec. 2.36, eff. July 1, 2001; Acts 1999, 76th Leg., ch. 846, Sec. 1, eff. Aug. 30, 1999.

Sec. 42.0021. ADDITIONAL EXEMPTION FOR CERTAIN SAVINGS PLANS. (a) In addition to the exemption prescribed by Section 42.001, a person's right to the assets held in or to receive payments, whether vested or not, under any stock bonus, pension, profit-sharing, or similar plan, including a retirement plan for self-employed individuals, and under any annuity or similar contract purchased with assets distributed from that type of plan, and under any retirement annuity or account described by Section 403(b) or 408A of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, and under any individual retirement account or any individual retirement annuity, including a simplified employee pension plan, and under any health savings account described by Section 223 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, is exempt from attachment, execution, and seizure for the satisfaction of debts unless the plan, contract, or account does not qualify under the applicable provisions of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986. A person's right to the assets held in or to receive payments, whether vested or not, under a government or church plan or contract is also exempt unless the plan or contract does not qualify under the definition of a government or church plan under the applicable provisions of the federal Employee Retirement Income Security Act of 1974. If this subsection is held invalid or preempted by federal law in whole or in part or in certain circumstances, the subsection remains in effect in all other respects to the maximum extent permitted by law.
(b) Contributions to an individual retirement account, other than contributions to a Roth IRA described in Section 408A, Internal Revenue Code of 1986, or an annuity that exceed the amounts deductible under the applicable provisions of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 and any accrued earnings on such contributions are not exempt under this section unless otherwise exempt by law. Amounts qualifying as nontaxable rollover contributions under Section 402(a)(5), 403(a)(4), 403(b)(8), or 408(d)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 before January 1, 1993, are treated as exempt amounts under Subsection (a). Amounts treated as qualified rollover contributions under Section 408A, Internal Revenue Code of 1986, are treated as exempt amounts under Subsection (a). In addition, amounts qualifying as nontaxable rollover contributions under Section 402(c), 402(e)(6), 402(f), 403(a)(4), 403(a)(5), 403(b)(8), 403(b)(10), 408(d)(3), or 408A of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 on or after January 1, 1993, are treated as exempt amounts under Subsection (a). Amounts qualifying as nontaxable rollover contributions under Section 223(f)(5) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 on or after January 1, 2004, are treated as exempt amounts under Subsection (a).
(c) Amounts distributed from a plan or contract entitled to the exemption under Subsection (a) are not subject to seizure for a creditor's claim for 60 days after the date of distribution if the amounts qualify as a nontaxable rollover contribution under Subsection (b).
(d) A participant or beneficiary of a stock bonus, pension, profit-sharing, retirement plan, or government plan is not prohibited from granting a valid and enforceable security interest in the participant's or beneficiary's right to the assets held in or to receive payments under the plan to secure a loan to the participant or beneficiary from the plan, and the right to the assets held in or to receive payments from the plan is subject to attachment, execution, and seizure for the satisfaction of the security interest or lien granted by the participant or beneficiary to secure the loan.
(e) If Subsection (a) is declared invalid or preempted by federal law, in whole or in part or in certain circumstances, as applied to a person who has not brought a proceeding under Title 11, United States Code, the subsection remains in effect, to the maximum extent permitted by law, as to any person who has filed that type of proceeding.
(f) A reference in this section to a specific provision of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 includes a subsequent amendment of the substance of that provision.
Added by Acts 1987, 70th Leg., ch. 376, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1987. Amended by Acts 1989, 71st Leg., ch. 1122, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1989; Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 963, Sec. 1, eff. Aug. 28, 1995; Acts 1999, 76th Leg., ch. 106, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1999.
Amended by:
Acts 2005, 79th Leg., Ch. 130, Sec. 1, eff. May 24, 2005.
Acts 2005, 79th Leg., Ch. 130, Sec. 2, eff. May 24, 2005.

Sec. 42.0022. EXEMPTION FOR COLLEGE SAVINGS PLANS. (a) In addition to the exemption prescribed by Section 42.001, a person's right to the assets held in or to receive payments or benefits under any of the following is exempt from attachment, execution, and seizure for the satisfaction of debts:
(1) any fund or plan established under Subchapter F, Chapter 54, Education Code, including the person's interest in a prepaid tuition contract;
(2) any fund or plan established under Subchapter G, Chapter 54, Education Code, including the person's interest in a savings trust account; or
(3) any qualified tuition program of any state that meets the requirements of Section 529, Internal Revenue Code of 1986, as amended.
(b) If any portion of this section is held to be invalid or preempted by federal law in whole or in part or in certain circumstances, this section remains in effect in all other respects to the maximum extent permitted by law.
Added by Acts 2003, 78th Leg., ch. 113, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 2003.

Sec. 42.003. DESIGNATION OF EXEMPT PROPERTY. (a) If the number or amount of a type of personal property owned by a debtor exceeds the exemption allowed by Section 42.002 and the debtor can be found in the county where the property is located, the officer making a levy on the property shall ask the debtor to designate the personal property to be levied on. If the debtor cannot be found in the county or the debtor fails to make a designation within a reasonable time after the officer's request, the officer shall make the designation.
(b) If the aggregate value of a debtor's personal property exceeds the amount exempt from seizure under Section 42.001(a), the debtor may designate the portion of the property to be levied on. If, after a court's request, the debtor fails to make a designation within a reasonable time or if for any reason a creditor contests that the property is exempt, the court shall make the designation.
Acts 1983, 68th Leg., p. 3524, ch. 576, Sec. 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1984. Amended by Acts 1991, 72nd Leg., ch. 175, Sec. 1, eff. May 24, 1991.

Sec. 42.004. TRANSFER OF NONEXEMPT PROPERTY. (a) If a person uses the property not exempt under this chapter to acquire, obtain an interest in, make improvement to, or pay an indebtedness on personal property which would be exempt under this chapter with the intent to defraud, delay, or hinder an interested person from obtaining that to which the interested person is or may be entitled, the property, interest, or improvement acquired is not exempt from seizure for the satisfaction of liabilities. If the property, interest, or improvement is acquired by discharging an encumbrance held by a third person, a person defrauded, delayed, or hindered is subrogated to the rights of the third person.
(b) A creditor may not assert a claim under this section more than two years after the transaction from which the claim arises. A person with a claim that is unliquidated or contingent at the time of the transaction may not assert a claim under this section more than one year after the claim is reduced to judgment.
(c) It is a defense to a claim under this section that the transfer was made in the ordinary course of business by the person making the transfer.
Acts 1983, 68th Leg., p. 3524, ch. 576, Sec. 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1984. Amended by Acts 1991, 72nd Leg., ch. 175, Sec. 1, eff. May 24, 1991.

Sec. 42.005. CHILD SUPPORT LIENS. Sections 42.001, 42.002, and 42.0021 of this code do not apply to a child support lien established under Subchapter G, Chapter 157, Family Code.
Added by Acts 1991, 72nd Leg., 1st C.S., ch. 15, Sec. 4.07, eff. Sept. 1, 1991. Amended by Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 7.56, eff. Sept. 1, 1997.

You need not thank me.

[Stockcarver]

I think you would have a tough time trying to hide an illegal gun shop under homestead laws.

Do everything legal, be safe.

Legal shop on a homestead, no problem.


After reviewing the laws of the state where I reside, think I am moving to Texas!!! Thanks Wills, how is the hunting around LaGrange? Any rifle ranges? How far to salt water fishing?

[JDFuchs]

I must thank everyone who has replied. It has been rather enlightening. I'm still rather torn on this. And I expect I will be for quite some time.

[John Taylor]

Boy, I think I broke all the rules when I started my business. Having many years experience as a mechanic, welder and machinist, I found myself without a job. I had most of the stuff to put together a rifling machine so while I was getting unemployment I put one together. Did a muzzle loading barrel for a logger and he said it shot great so I put an add in "gun list" that I would do barrel work. I already had a small machine shop as a hobby so I didn't need to go out and spend a bunch of money, just $55 for the add. The business grew steady to the point I can't keep up with it. I don't depend on walk-in customers, most of my work gets shipped to me. I set a shop rate of $75 for machine work last year but I don't think I ever charged that much. I try to stay away from modern firearms, working only on old stuff if possible. I do get a few modern guns in and do my best to fix them right. So far in over 12 years I have had only three problem customers. Two have been worked out and I still have a rifle that was never paid for. Sometimes money is tight and I wonder if I will have the house payment on time but it has always worked out. God has supplied plenty of work, just not the energy to do it all.
I told my kids when they were growing up to find a job they enjoyed doing. If you don't like doing a job you find ways do drag your feet and not do a good job. If you really enjoy what you do you will find yourself looking forward to the next day to see what kind of challenges come in. If you really enjoy what you do you will have less sick days, less stress and be happier with your life.

[Stockcarver]

I must thank everyone who has replied. It has been rather enlightening. I'm still rather torn on this. And I expect I will be for quite some time.

Keep it going as a hobby, just do not do work for others or you may wind up on the wrong side of the ATF.

Find some way to make a few extra bucks, be it part time in a box store, carpenter work, mechanic work, anything, and save the money for buying things like a lathe, drill press, decent vertical mill, tooling, etc.

All along take on more intense projects to build your skills.

When you have both the equipment and the skills you will know it is time to apply for a FFL and do the other business license related items.

Keep at it, quality gun makers are a dying breed in the US and we need more young guys to learn the trade!

[John Taylor]

Another thought on law-suits, if you don't have insurance you most likely won't get sued. Lawyers won't take on a job if it looks like they will not get paid for their time.

[nanuk]

one thing I have heard is, find a particular niche firearms work you are good at, and stick to that as much as you can

some guys specialize on 1911's others on Rem700's.....

I dunno....
Me I just love to tinker and learn all I can. I just wish I could afford some real machines

[wills]

I think you would have a tough time trying to hide an illegal gun shop under homestead laws.

Do everything legal, be safe.

Legal shop on a homestead, no problem.


After reviewing the laws of the state where I reside, think I am moving to Texas!!! Thanks Wills, how is the hunting around LaGrange? Any rifle ranges? How far to salt water fishing?

http://www.fayettecountygunclub.com/
The shotgun people are most active, but there are rifle and handgun facilities there.

http://www.yauponcreek.org/
BPCR matches twice a month except November and December

About 106 miles to Port Lavaca for saltwater fishing.
http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/fishboat...shreport.phtml

(Fayette county reservoir is a powerplant lake “Fayette County Reservoir is first and foremost a largemouth bass lake. Statewide annual tournament surveys consistently rank this lake at or near the top using quality indicators like average weight and bass caught per hour.” http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/fishboat.../lakes/fayette )

Plenty of deer, though most people get a lease somewhere else.

The “homestead” laws also protect a business homestead.

[jonas302]

I wouldn't even consider going to school and then starting a business with no experience I see it in young auto mechanics all the time after they close up shop and get hired on I wonder how on earth they thought they could make it on there own with so much to learn

[JDFuchs]

What about getting my FFL and starting part time while still working my day job?

[Stockcarver]

What about getting my FFL and starting part time while still working my day job?

Yes Yes and Yes.

Let the real job pay for the family expenses, house, car, etc. Don't forget to put some away in a savings plan.

Part time work on guns, use the profits to invest in tools and machinery.

But be careful, do not let gun work displace quality family time, especially with the wife.

Send off for the ATF regulations, read everything carefully.

[izzyjoe]

i was thinking the same thing as the OP, cause i was doing some minor gunwork on my off time. and my wife said you're getting pretty good at this, you should start your own bizzness. so i started thinking about it, and i talked to a freind that is a hobby gunsmith. and he said it's a tough, tough way to try and make a living. people are the problem, it's a double edge sword, some people are easy to please, and some you are not going to please. i've learned this from twenty years of being a mechanic/engine mechanist. you just have to weed out the bad folks, just tell them your busy and don't have time to work on their what ever it is. but you will be better off not working on cheaper guns, as had been said. S.R. Custom give some very good advice, as has everyone else. i kind of relate this topic in the same way as i do engine rebuild/mechine shops. most folks nowdays have the disposable atitude! if it's broke throw it away and get another one. same as in vehicles, guns, or what ever. all the engine shops in my area have shut down. 1. because it's hard to find good help. 2. the EPA has cracked down on them. 3. most folks go do something "cheaper''. well cheaper ain't always better. the shop i worked at, we started specializing in race only engines, our customer base fell off pretty quick, but we did have enough regulars to keep the doors open for awhile, untill the fuel prices went sky high. but i believe a man could stay busy with a legal partime job as a gunsmith, in a specailty shop, and still have a full time job. i wish you well in your adventures.

[trench]

almost all of your biz will be during the fall/hunting season, unless you can get an internet, American-rifleman sort fo niche/specialty going for you. Blueing and stock refinishing are where most of the money is, and not much of that, in my experience. I"d rather drive a truck a few years, then pay for Filipino male-female teams to drive my trucks, and just go shooting/hunting all the time.

[MT Gianni]

The one I used before my last move had his shop open for 4 hrs a day. He worked 10 hour days but needed the 6 hrs of uninterupted time. If you do this plan on selling a few guns. Take off bbls are saved for rebuilds and wood stocks pulled for composite ones are reused also.

[targetshootr]

I would say go into business as a machinist first, since there's much more of a market for it, then take on gun work once you know a particular kind of gun backwards and forwards. Say single action revolvers. Once you can do a top notch action job and fit the barrel/cyl gap and set the timing, headspace, etc, in your sleep, local cowboy shooters may beat a path to your door.

A machine shop is where I go to get gun parts welded or holes drilled since he's an ffl-gunsmith to boot.

[quasi]

I would say go into business as a machinist first, since there's much more of a market for it, then take on gun work once you know a particular kind of gun backwards and forwards. Say single action revolvers. Once you can do a top notch action job and fit the barrel/cyl gap and set the timing, headspace, etc, in your sleep, local cowboy shooters may beat a path to your door.

A machine shop is where I go to get gun parts welded or holes drilled since he's an ffl-gunsmith to boot.

A machine shop costs a lot more to setup - finance than an average Gunsmiths shop does.

[waksupi]

A machine shop costs a lot more to setup - finance than an average Gunsmiths shop does.

If you don't have a mill and lathe, you don't have a gunsmith shop.

[targetshootr]

Fwiw, when I went into bidness in my trade it felt like a long vacation for the first ten years. Being single I didn't have many bills to speak of so I didn't have to work every day. When things got so busy I had to hire half-a-dozen people for the next ten years, it was like a babysitting job that I couldn't quit. Hated it, so I'm back to doing it by myself.

[Frank46]

I had a buddy (passed away) who di local gunsmithing in Flushing New York. used to gover to his new shop with coffee and bagels and bs about the world. Then he went to montana and got a job with woldgang Droge. Found him back home in huntington leslie edlmans doing store work.
As he related the story to me he was still owed money from his pervious job. Worked at his present job for a couple of years. Then he passed away. Never knew wether or not he ever got that money. His lifestyle was pretty simple was pretty laid back. My advice would be don't give up your day job. Frank