No more &@*% sabots!

[John Taylor]

Thanks for all of the advice. I am sure some people with some guns can get great results sometimes with sabots and BH209. But I'm done with them.

I'm pretty well set on trying the 320gr LEE REAL after this season is over.

Will I be able to load them (without a sledgehammer) if I cast with air cooled WW? Would be about 11bnh with my alloy.

use pure lead for the LEE REAL, they are design to bump up a bit, also they will shave a bit of lead when loading.

[Crawdaddy]

Whats a sabot?

I do both. 463 gr cast .458 in a Harvester Crushed Rib sabot. Killed two mulies this year with them. Both pass throughs. I get very close to MOA accuracy with them.

The trick to getting these things to shoot well is to shoot a lot and find out what shoots best. I put close to 500 rounds through my ML this year before settling on a bullet, powder and charge weight. It paid off in the end. I'm a tad anal (yes its true) 500 rounds is a bit extreme and could have settled much sooner.

[Crawdaddy]

Thanks for all of the advice. I am sure some people with some guns can get great results sometimes with sabots and BH209. But I'm done with them.

I'm pretty well set on trying the 320gr LEE REAL after this season is over.

Will I be able to load them (without a sledgehammer) if I cast with air cooled WW? Would be about 11bnh with my alloy.

when I was playing with these over the summer they practicaly slid down down the barrel using only the weight of the ramrod. Accuracy was marginal out of a traditions vortek. 3 inch groups at a hundred yards as best I recall.

[lesharris]

I was very disapointed with sabots,and I have tried most brands and weights.
My Knight long range hunter and my NEF huntsman would shoot shotgun groups at best with the sabots and Pyrodex,American Select, Jim Shokeys Gold,and other subs as well. Tried pellets and granular.
Real Black powder grade 2F would settle the groups alot,but thr real solution for me was Blackhorn 209.
With almost any sabots both rifles and my T/C Omega now shoot constantly within 1 inch at 50 yards
Blackhorn 209 is expensive at $32 per 10 oz. container,but the results were wort it to me.
By the way Blackhorn cleans up with Hoppes or any regular gun solvent usually 3 patches finished.
Also no crud ring like Triple Seven,no patching or cleaning between shots and loading easier on each shot.

[725]

I'm a maxi-ball convert for my in-liners. Just like the lead. When I shot them with sabots, the best I did was with T/C shock waves, 777, and a 209 ML primer. Cleaning was best done with Ed's Red (the acetone eats the plastic out of the barrel). Following the manufacturer's. I never used lube. When I did, the fouling was terrible, accuracy was poor, and cleaning was a pain.

[mooman76]

Thanks for all of the advice. I am sure some people with some guns can get great results sometimes with sabots and BH209. But I'm done with them.

I'm pretty well set on trying the 320gr LEE REAL after this season is over.

Will I be able to load them (without a sledgehammer) if I cast with air cooled WW? Would be about 11bnh with my alloy.

I used straight WWs for awhile because that's all I had. Its doable but also depends on the gun and how tight they fit. My ball starter is a little wider than some which helped but my palm would get sore after loading awhile. The stickon WWs are softer. you can use them or mix 50/50 to soften the lead or even trade. Allot of people are looking for WWs and have straight lead to swap.

[P.K.]

I used straight WWs for awhile because that's all I had. Its doable but also depends on the gun and how tight they fit. My ball starter is a little wider than some which helped but my palm would get sore after loading awhile. The stickon WWs are softer. you can use them or mix 50/50 to soften the lead or even trade. Allot of people are looking for WWs and have straight lead to swap.

Pretty sure I mentioned that.....

[Crawdaddy]

I was very disapointed with sabots,and I have tried most brands and weights.
My Knight long range hunter and my NEF huntsman would shoot shotgun groups at best with the sabots and Pyrodex,American Select, Jim Shokeys Gold,and other subs as well. Tried pellets and granular.
Real Black powder grade 2F would settle the groups alot,but thr real solution for me was Blackhorn 209.
With almost any sabots both rifles and my T/C Omega now shoot constantly within 1 inch at 50 yards
Blackhorn 209 is expensive at $32 per 10 oz. container,but the results were wort it to me.
By the way Blackhorn cleans up with Hoppes or any regular gun solvent usually 3 patches finished.
Also no crud ring like Triple Seven,no patching or cleaning between shots and loading easier on each shot.

Couldn't agree more. BH209 contributed to much better groups for me too. Well worth the money.

[45r]

you guys have talked me into trying BH,got some harvester CR sabots also.Wish the weather would clear up so I can see if it works.Won't miss swabbing between shots,stinky smell and easy clean up would be much liked.

[lesharris]

Once you try it you too will beleive.
I still use 2F blackpowder in my flintlocks.
Blackhorn is not recomended in flint or percussion ignitions.
Consistent,clean,easy loading,no foul smell shooting or cleanup,and cleanup easy as it is,does not have to be done right away.
Does not get better than that.
Les.

[Potsy]

I've shot a Knight Green Sabot and a 240 .44 XTP for years out of my Knight BK-92. This year, it didn't want to shoot.

Soooo, I reached in the range bag and pulled out some black sabots and some 270-SAA's. They were good for about 1.5" at a 100 yards over 100grn FF Goex and a musket cap.
I suspect that I've got some plastic fouling buildup (the lesson here is, pillow ticking doesn't build up in the bore). The .45's fit a little snugger than the .44's.

I killed my biggest deer ever with it a couple of weeks later. I'll post pics when I sit down and take the time (don't get tore up, it ain't that big).

After toting a Knight for knocking on 20 years, vs. my old CVA roundball gun, plus watching my buddies fight with various pellets, powders (black and smokeless), whatever kind of bullet with a plastic jacket (some with a plastic tip so they'll shoot flatter!!) I've pretty well decided that I like my old Knight, but if the barrel ever wears out, I'm getting it re-bored for .54 balls, just to I can have a muzzleloader with a decent scope setup.

I did get to see a Jim Shockey Gold Pellet fly, smoking, downrange, as one solid chunk this year out of a buddy's muzzleloader. I guess that was kinda cool. Of course, the bullet didn't hit anywhere near where it was supposed to; but that's okay; they reload faster so you can miss faster and you don't have to weigh that messy icky powder.

[Crawdaddy]

you guys have talked me into trying BH,got some harvester CR sabots also.Wish the weather would clear up so I can see if it works.Won't miss swabbing between shots,stinky smell and easy clean up would be much liked.

You are one step closer to becoming a believer. What caliber and weight bullet? If you are shooting long heavy bullets the extra long CR sabot is reccmended.

Would love to hear your results. good luck.

[RBak]

Once you try it you too will beleive.
I still use 2F blackpowder in my flintlocks.
Blackhorn is not recomended in flint or percussion ignitions.
Consistent,clean,easy loading,no foul smell shooting or cleanup,and cleanup easy as it is,does not have to be done right away.
Does not get better than that.
Les.

With all those "pluses" it makes me wonder why you even mess with a muzzle loader in the first place.

Russ

[frontier gander]

With all those "pluses" it makes me wonder why you even mess with a muzzle loader in the first place.

Russ

Cuz when you can shoot a 3 shot group @100 yards like this with a $180 muzzy and a $50 scope, it makes the day a whole lot more enjoyable.

[mooman76]

Pretty sure I mentioned that.....

Well excuse the **** out of me for trying to help the guy out and overlooking your post!

Have a nice day!

[Potsy]

Great group Gander. Guessing from the link at the bottom that you shot that with this BH 209powder everyone's talking about?
Was about to make a comment on having much faith in a $50 scope, but considering that I'm pretty sure (haven't experimented since attempting to check the sight-in) a $300 Nikon Monarch puked on me this year, I'll keep my mouth shut.

[frontier gander]

yes that was with 100gr blackhorn209, cci 209m primers and the 250gr powerbelt aerolite. I just recently put a konuspro 3-10x44 scope on it. Going to do some trading today and wasn't giving up my best scope with that deal! LOL.

[P.K.]

Well excuse the **** out of me for trying to help the guy out and overlooking your post!

Have a nice day!

Excused, read the thread.


Smart a$$ or PITA turned off, I had a bad day there, so call it even.

[NickSS]

I tried Sabots when they first came out in a 1 in 32 50 cal rifle. I had the same inconsistencies and inaccuracies talked about in this thread and I was using real BP. So I sold that rifle and went back to my old TC New Englander side lock using Maxi balls for elk and pached RB for deer and never looked back. A Maxi Ball and 90 gr of FFG or a patched RB over 80 gr of FFG has worked for me with total satisfaction until I stopped hunting a few years ago due to age and infirmaty. I got my animals every year and they all died guickly so I can not see all the hype about modern ML and all the various fake powders available today.

[lead_her_fly]

Well, completely new to the whole muzzy thing. I did get an Encore from Gander Mountain, and it is the one that you can replace barrels on, for just a tad over $400. Being a caster, I sure wanted to shoot lead boolits in it but, also have heard of the great accuracy potential of saboted rounds. I got this thing too close to deer season to really work up loads and such but, I did buy the T/C Super Glide sabots and bullets, several bags of sabots (Traditions & Hornady) and some Hornady FTX .452" bullets that I got to try in a Puma Levergun in 45 Colt.
I also got a bunch of the other sabots for use with .430" bullets, since I have a bunch of Hornady 240gr XTPs as well as several Miha moulds to cast from.


I am using pellets for now, 777, 4 -50/30gr (because they were on sale) and the 45-270SAA with the round HP. I started out with the Super Glide and was 2" high @ 50 yards and 12 clicks left. Got to the center vertically but kept the 2" high just for drop to 100 yards. Ran the load over the chronograph and had a kind of low velocity, in my opinion, @ 1550fps.

What amazed me most was when I moved out to the 100 yard mark. I hadn't set up my own target but someone was kind enough to have put 6 or 7 clay pigeons on the berm just for me to try. I forgot to count exactly how many were there to start with but, after the smoke cleared, I thought I had one less. Before shooting again, I took an accurate accounting and by now, there was another shooter on the range. I asked him to watch.

I touched the smoke pole off again and long before I could see, he was yelling that I had gotten a pigeon, clay that is!

Swabbing after the first few shots and then just loading, fouling and all, and I could repeat that as much as I wanted, well, at least until the clays were gone!

Start to finish was maybe 30 rounds mostly all with the Hornady black sabots and whatever bullet or boolit I put in there. Got the wife a stainless steel Endeavor and going to sight it in tonight. Not sure just what load I will give her. We will tell tonight.

Seems that the sabots are working okay for now. Oh, this was all touched off with Remington muzzy 209 primers.

I did notice two things: The Hornady sabots are harder to load & @ 50 yards, the shots came down to POA/POI and held there even out to 100 yards.

At any rate, I think I like the option of the sabots. I can shoot any boolit I already cast with them and can get acceptable hunting accuracy doing so. To me, that is a win/win. Imagine a boolit from a Miha 200gr Cramer 45 caliber mould. If that shoots accurate with these sabots, that is going to be one flat shooting round!

Will have to do some playing around after deer season though!