C. Sharps (the other white meat) long

[Bear Claw]

Ok so it wasnt that funny,,

On to the point, I have been reading the posts here about Shiloh, Pedersoli,
Taylor, etc; and have not seen C Sharps mentioned, If my memory serves me they were around B-4 shiloh, Anyway anyone have an opinion about them? I am looking to buy an 1874 pattern gun and while I would love to have a shiloh I am not sure I can stand the wait, ( 18 mon. per Lucinda ) I can get a Pedersoli here today but (please dont be offended) I kinda have a fobea about spagetti shooters.

I know, I know, I have looked at them they are a lot nicer than they use to be
and I am looking at them with a new attitude, While reserching I found that C Sharps is still around, and has a gun in stock fitted out the way I want for about $2800, Pedersoli $1800, Shiloh $3000 + the wait.

If not for the wait I would buy the Shiloh, even over the c sharps and the pedersoli is just my instant gratification thing kickin in,,,So I am very interested in what you folks know and say about the C Sharps as I am now leaning that way pretty hard.....

Bear Claw

[omgb]

You needn't wait for a Shiloh, they have a shop sales area and there is a dealer in Bozeman IIRC, who carries their rifles. While they will not be custom, they might be close to what you want.

C. Sharps and Shiloh have similar bloodlines I think. I don't remember the whole story but I think Wolfgang had a hand in both of them. At any rate, they are both fine rifles. I have a Pedersoli and it shoots ever bit as well as either of the other two. That being said, the difference between the two is like the difference between a Miss Universe and your typical wife. One may look hotter than a $2.00 pistol but the odds are, that it may perform no better or maybe not as well if you catch my drift. It's all about the relationship you forge with the gun, that is what brings out the true potential of the firearm. Pedersoli barrels and actions are simply the best there are, right up there with the top custom makers. Where they fall short is in the area of cosmetics. They are good to very good while Shiloh is perfection in metal and wood.

[NickSS]

I own two Shilohs and thee C sharps 1875s and a C Sharps 1885 High Wall Winchester Clone. All are excellent rifles that I have been enjoying for almost 20 years. I have also seen some of their 1874s both at their factory show room and on the fireing line. They are very similar to Shilohs in Quality and accuracy. My most shot 45-70 is a C Sharps 1875 with a 28 inch heavy round barrel That I have owned shince 1991. It broke one fireing pin in over 15000 rounds (mostly black powder) That is the only trouble I have had with it. My C Sharps 1875 are all plain jane rifles as I got them to shoot and hunt with and I do not like beeting up a rifle with fine wood. My Shilohs are a different mater both have fancy wood and only go to the target range when I have a long range match.

[Pat I.]

I have a like new Shiloh LRE in 45/70 with MVA long range vernier rear and globe front sites I'm thinking of selling it (sites are over $450). If you're interested PM me.

What Sharps were you looking at for 3000 bucks?

Pat

[joeb33050]

I have a C. Sharps 1875 in 45/70, have shot it up to 600 yards with black and smokeless. It has never failed me so far. I get 5 shot 5 group averages around 2" at 100 yards from the bench with a scope, some groups down to .8". Broke 1 firing pin dry firing it, immediate response from the factory. I would recommend C. Sharps.

joe b.

[6pt-sika]

I've handled quite a few of both over the last 7 or 8 years and never owned one , well until my 50-90 gets here in the summer of 2008 .

However I like them both and just decided I wanted to try the Shiloh first

I have a feeling if the 50-90 and I can get things worked out to suit me there may be a 50-70 Lone Star in my future after that or a CPA Schuetzen in 32-40 .

But if I get a CPA you can bet I won't shoot BP in it

[Bear Claw]

Thanks for the replys

Looks like I am going the right way, Pat I, I was looking at the Quigley (of corse ) What I want is a non-pistole grip non-cheek rest gun, more like the plain jane stuff an average hide hunter would have bought in cal 45-70 or 45-110.

If I get lucky my wife will let me buy both

[SharpsShooter]

Another vote for the C. Sharps. I have a 75 in 45-70 that will put 10 shot into 1 1/2" groups at 100yds with open sights regularly using black powder and the 457125. Never had a moments trouble from it.

SS

[Bullshop]

I'll prolly get whipped for this but I'm gonna say it. I think the 75 is a better action than the 74. No Quiggley didnt use it but I believe it to be stronger and it has a faster lock time. I see it as a side hammer high wall.
OK flame away, its been kinda boring anyway.
BIC/BS

[floodgate]

Bear Claw:

Bill Goodman, at <www.goodmanguns.com>, or (406) 587-3131 has standing orders with Shiloh and keeps several of them in stock at any time for immediate delivery. Worth checking with him to see what he has on hand.

floodgate

[floodgate]

Re: the two comments above on broken firing pins (one from dry-firing) in C. Sharps 1875's. Are the FP's the same dog-legged construction as the "standard" Sharps? I've been eyeing these for some time, and would like one in either .40-70 SS or in .30-40.

floodgate

[montana_charlie]

I have been reading the posts here about Shiloh, Pedersoli, Taylor, etc; and have not seen C Sharps mentioned, If my memory serves me they were around B-4 shiloh, Anyway anyone have an opinion about them?

In the Beginning there was Darkness...oops! (Fast-forwarding a few billion years...)

In the begining there was Shiloh, and it lived in Farmingdale. It was a company that built reproductions of the old guns originally made by C. Sharps in the 1800's.
And it came to pass that Shiloh moved to Big Timber, Montana, where the reproduction continued.
Eventually, there was a falling out among the 'main movers' at Shiloh, so they split the blanket and (down the street) C. Sharps was born.

I don't know what they disagreed about, maybe one of them snored too loudly at night. But there are some differences in their guns.

The C. Sharps receivers (for instance) are machined from solid stock, then case hardened. The Shiloh receivers are investment castings. (Perhaps it was Bryant's desire to switch to that form of production which caused the split.)

C. Sharps buys their barrels, while Shiloh produces their own.
(I have the impression that it is a limitation on barrel production capacity that is primarily responsible for the 'wait' at Shiloh.)

Both products are well-made, and available in many configurations...and either has that tiny chance of being a 'lemon' which requires some form of warrantied 'adjustment'.

It may be that you can buy a custom-made gun from C. Sharps, if you have the money and that is your desire...I don't really know.
Shiloh, on the other hand, provides an extensive list of 'options' that you can choose from...to build an a-la-carte rifle...but will not (for example) provide a pistol gripped shotgun butt on a 'standard grade' round barrelled gun - even though a shotgun butt is available for their Business Rifle. I find that surprising from a company whose customers think of it as a 'custom' shop.

I believe that Shiloh did custom work in the past, but perhaps that was before the corporate split.

If your main interest is 'pretty'...or if you are equally divided between pretty and accurate...Shiloh and C. Sharps can make you happy.

If you prefer to spend your money on 'small groups', and save the price of 'cosmetics' for buying powder and moulds...Pedersoli won't disappoint you.
CM

[Boz330]

Got my first C-Sharps in 91 a Highwall in 40-65 and a 75 a couple years ago in 38-55. I have been real happy with both. The Highwall is hard on firing pins but it has been shot a lot. Have not broken one in the 75 YET.
My shooting buddy regularly kicks my butt with a Pedersoli so they are not slouches either, (not a fault of the C-Sharps), but the nut behind the butt.

Bob

[kodiak1]

C. Sharps will do Custom Work and they have a ton of Calibers to Choose from.
I agree with Bull Shop on the 75 being a stronger Action than the 74. If you buy the C. Sharps it is the only Rifle that can carry the Old Reliable Logo on it, Hre got it in the Split and Shiloh or anyone else cannot legally use it.
Mine is a 40-90 SBN. model 75 and it shoots Great, Feels Good and Fits me to a Tee.
Don't be afraid to order one.
Ken.

[Bear Claw]

Hello All

You wont belive this,,, Was telling the wife my problem, She asked if C sharps had what I want in stock ( They Do ) Soooooooo she say's WHY dont you get the C Sharps now AND (rept.) AND pay the deposit on the Shiloh and get them both ( bless her she knows how much I want the Quigley ) She said this way you will have one to play with till the other is ready...........


I think I will keep her......A very Happy Bear Claw

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Charlie,

Couple things,

The Shiloh's-C. Sharps Old reliable guns were, as current Shilohs Investment cast. Wolfgang Drodge was the driving force and founder, John Schofsthall was just the distributor-partner. It is of interesting Fact that John S. does own the letterhead and rights to the C. Sharps old Reliable monker and Logo. When C Sharps started making 74's again on their own, they started to use bar stock, this was after the split. For along period of time you could only get 1875's from C. Sharps Arms. Point is mute as the fact a bar, is poured and also extruded steel, both are melted at one point or another. Your correct that current C Sharps actions come from Smith Enterprises where they are milled from forgings, the actions and internals are assembled in Big Timber. Pedersoli's are also forgings.

Wolfgang and John S. were in together in the begining and thats who split. The Bryan, not bryant, family bought Shiloh from Wolfgang a good bit of time after the split, Wolf continued to stay on for a while until the Bryan Family got Shiloh up and running. I personaly, was taken though the factory by Wolfgang on Several occasions the last time was when he had sold the factory and I had ordered my first rifle this was in 1991.

As for the reasons for wait, there are several. in years past the time took to machine an action was a 8 hour day, now with the C&C mills two actions come out about every 40 mins. The other is quite simple Shiloh does not cut corners and a Semi custom rifle takes time, just to finish the stocks takes quite a bit of time.

Also Shiloh has their own foundery now in the past this caused bottle necks in production waiting on foundry work, Shiloh now Pours one day a week just to make parts.


As for the real differences between the 3 Companys guns, it lies in the heat treatment methods, Shiloh's is heads above the others. This company builds actions to test and have blown up, the presures that require one to fail are so far above the others that its not even funny. I have personaly seen the results from Hodggens Test reports. You could not get me to even lay behind a Pedersoli if someone was using Duplex or Smokless loads in one. I have personally seen one Shiloh that was blown up by a customer, he was using a full case of 5744 in a 45-110 and it let go on the 3rd shot the action split at the bottom and blew the barrel partly apart. The 348 head markings on the case he was using, are premently etched into the breech block its quite the thing to see. IT HELD the shooter walked away with nar a scratch.

That Breech block will fit in a brand new action with out any problems, I know I have done it took it out on the floor and picked up a random action and tried it just to make double sure I tried it in several others it fit in everyone.

I have no idea what C Sharps warntys their guns at.

Perdersoli does not reconmend 45-70s to be loaded over 45,000 cup.

Shiloh's are up to Ruger #1 loads.

I have had personal Dealings with Mr John S. and C Sharps Arms in the past that convinced me to get my Sharps elsewhere.

Shiloh has of last count, donated over $400,000 in rifles to this sport and the Firearms-hunting-shooters industry.

The other two C Sharps-Pedersoli dont even compare. Not even combined will they compare. Thats not my opinon thats a fact.

My choice is to spend my hard earned dollars with a company that supports my rights and my sport. Then to spend with companys that dont even come close. Shiloh's custmer service, ha the rest dont have one compared to them. Try to get Mr Peranglo on the Phone when you got a problem with your Pedersoli. Or John S. good luck. Kirk Bryan stands behind his familys product like no other firearms manufactor today.

As you had passed on some incorrect information I felt compelled to correct your errors, the other is my simple opinion and a few facts.

As for spending $1800 on a Perdersoli, anyone that does that is nuts.

My last Shiloh the business rifle that is posted in pictures on this forum was $1874 in actuall price. It shoots very well better then I can hold offhand for sure.

My old Creedmoor rifle is 13+ years old has over 20,000 rounds on it. Granted it got a new barrel at 18,000 rounds oh by the way Free of Charge! I have wore out 2 breech blocks, broke 2 firing pins and one lever return spring. All replaced under factory warranty. This gun gets lots of hard usage, load workup and lots of matches are shot with it from buffalo gong shoots to Creedmoor. 45-110's with bp, run 3 times the chamber pressures a standard bp 45-70 load does, they are hard on breech blocks.

Looking at the past year results at matches:

Billy Dixon match: won with a Shiloh 45-110 new Range record set at 1538 yards 5/6 hits the group measures 3 feet thats sub MOA.
NRA Nationals: Creedmoor Matches #2 Team A pair of 45-110 Shilohs
National Scope Champion Creedmoor Shiloh Sharps 45-110
Day one Creedmoor First Place Shiloh Sharps 45-110 260-3x
Day one Creedmoor Top Scores at 1000 yards Irons: Shiloh Sharps 45-110
Day one Creedmoor Top Scores at 1000 yards Scope: Shiloh Sharps 45-110
Day two Creedmoor Top Scores at 1000 yards Scope: Shiloh Sharps 45-110
Grand Agg for 1000 yards Creedmoor nationals Scope: Shiloh Sharps 45-110
PS this is the second year in a row at 1000 yards the agg for the Scope class.

Nationals Pedersoli 5 at 200 Challenge: Scope Class winner Shiloh Sharps 45-110

As a mater of Record 6 indivual Gold medals won with A Shiloh Sharps in just the Scope class plus the National Title in Creedmoor.

Sage Brush Match:
3rd overall won with A Sharps 45-110 37/40
Scope Class won for the second year in a row with a Shiloh Sharps 45-110 this rifle Also shot a perfect score at 1000 yards at this match one of only 3 such ever fired.

So my advice is to buy what ever you want, but when it comes to a 1874 style Sharps, can you really afford to not own a Shiloh? I spend my money on guns the same way I do for my tools. I buy once and only once so I buy the very best.

Kenny Wasserburger
2006 NRA Creedmoor Scope Champion
Proud Shiloh Sharps Owner

[500bfrman]

If shiloh would just make me a 50-140 I could die a happy man

[L Ross]

I own a 74 from each company and both are completely satisfactory. I dealt with Mr. Schoffstall during the construction of my rifle and was treated very well. The C.Sharps has a Badger cut rifled barrel that are made in my home state and that pleases me.

Shiloh's reputation is beyond reproach. One tiny little thing I noticed when I had my rifles apart for cleaning. The internal recesses of my C. Sharp's breech block are completely finished and polished as any visible exterior surface, the Shiloh is not. Means nothing as far as function make of it what you will.

L Ross

[Bullshop]

Re: the two comments above on broken firing pins (one from dry-firing) in C. Sharps 1875's. Are the FP's the same dog-legged construction as the "standard" Sharps? I've been eyeing these for some time, and would like one in either .40-70 SS or in .30-40.

floodgate

floodgate
No not the same, similer but different. I think many pins are broken because the hammer is not brought back to half cock before lowering the lever. When this is done the pin is extended and will catch on the bottom of the chamber and shear off.
Both models have to be set at half cock before droping the lever.
I have put 1000's of rounds through a 75 and never replaced a pin. The 74 is different. Even with proper use they seem to take a beating and often break with heavy use such as in compition. The breaking pin was one of the reasons the trapdoor won the military trials over the sharps.
BIC/BS

[BruceB]

My wife gave me a Shiloh for Christmas back about 1980, when they were still made in New York. Serial number is 34xx. At that time, our dealer in Edmonton Alberta had a dozen or so Shilohs on the rack when we visited from the sub-Arctic.

I wanted a .50-140, and the rifle was marked .50-3&1/4".....but it was actually chambered in .50-2.5 (.50-90). I decided to stay with the 2.5" chamber. The rifle never shot very well over the years, no matter what I did. It had a "paper-patch throat", amounting to a very long freebore, and slow twist of 1 in 38".

Just three years back (I think) I finally contacted Kirk Bryan at Shiloh, yep the owner hisself, and asked his opinion.

Remember, the rifle was made YEARS before his ownership of Shiloh began. Even so, he immediately offered to re-barrel my rifle to any caliber they chamber, with my choice of weight and length, for HALF-PRICE! I took him at his word, shipped the rifle, and had it back in two weeks for less than $300 including shipping. It now shoots beautifully as a .45-70, and I am a lifetime fan of Shiloh Rifles Inc.!

Quality people, and quality rifles. I'd like to visit the factory one day, as I hear that visitors are well received (to say the least).