Cap and Ball shooters

[Bardo]

I'm trying to decide what cap and ball to get. I have a Pietta 1858 Remington 44 cal. and really like it. I'm thinking I want a Colt style in 36 cal. - so a 1851, 1861 or 1862. ( I realize the Remingtons are stronger - thats one of the reasons why I would go with 36 cal. and I would get a steel frame not brass)

PROS- of the Colt in 36 cal.

*36 cal. it use less lead and powder - I'm shooting paper and a few rabbits. (I know I can get a Remington in 36 cal.)
*Looks easier to cap (can actually use a capper)
*Looks faster to clean (I don't like that the barrel and the frame are one on the Remingtons)
*I like the feel and how they point ( I have never shot a colt - only held them)
*And I like the looks of the Colts.

A few questions

*What do most of you guys prefer Remingtons or Colts and why?
*What are faster to clean Remingtons or Colts?
*Do 36 cal. shoot longer before I need to clean and lube then a 44 cal?
*Between 1851 and 1861 what has the better ball seater?
*Pietta or Uberti?

Any comments would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Bardo

[NickSS]

Well I happen to have owned and shot a lot of cap and ball revolvers and they are among my favorite hand guns. I mostly shoot 44 cal Remington style revolvers and have both piatta and uberti ones. I also have several colts in 44 and 36 cal and like shooting them but they are much more difficult to shoot well due mostly to the really poor sights. I have several Colt 1851s including Piatta and Colt second gen revolvers. They shoot OK but the best that I seam to be able to do with the issue sights is around 3+ inches at 25 yards while my remington 44 will shoot at least an inch smaller groups. I have a really nice 1862 Uberti Pocket police in 36 cal with a five shot cylinder. It shoots about like my 1851s but is really cool looking. Colts are also more prone to have jams due to spent caps getting between the hammer and frame. Remingtons do not have as much problems in this respect. Now if you want the very best get a ruger old army. I have two of them and they shoot the best of all my C&B revolvers with the least problems. By the way I also have a Rogers and Spencer 44 and a Uberti 1873 C&B revolvers. The 1873s shoot right alongside my Ruger old army but they are not a historical C&B as they were never made that way back in the day and you need a loading tool to reload the cylinder apart from the revolver. I bought it when Cabella's was selling them off for $150 and they are a dandy pistol but just not historical.

[Geraldo]

*What do most of you guys prefer Remingtons or Colts and why? The Remingtons have better sights, but there is no Remington that compares to shooting a Dragoon or Walker. I like ALL cap and ball revolvers.

*What are faster to clean Remingtons or Colts? Neither. I throw my Colt barrels in a bucket of water to soak first, but you still swab a C&B barrel however many times it takes to get it clean. Cleaning a cylinder is cleaning a cylinder.

*Do 36 cal. shoot longer before I need to clean and lube then a 44 cal? Not that I've noticed.

*Between 1851 and 1861 what has the better ball seater? I wouldn't say that the creeper loading lever of the 1861 works better, but the barrel and lever does look better. The 1860 Army, 1861 Navy, and 1862 Police are some of the best looking Colts ever made.

*Pietta or Uberti? I've got four of each, but not the same models so I can't make a direct comparison between an 1861 from each company. The finish on an Uberti is definately better, especially their charcoal blue. In the sample that I have, one does not shoot any better than the other. Some say that mechanically the Ubertis are better, but one of mine is not quite as good as the other three. If money were never a consideration, I'd probably buy Ubertis.

[iron brigade]

i have both models. the colt will shoot high. i had to modify the front sight for competition. now shoots POA.

[Maven]

bardo, Follow Geraldo's advice! Btw, cleaning my Rem. 44cal. is no more difficult or more time consuming than cleaning my cartridge revolvers. What's different is the solvent used for each.

[Bardo]

Thanks for all the replies. Well I think I'm going to end up having to try all of them and probably like them all for different reasons. (What a surprise) I don't want to get a Ruger at this time because I want a historically correct gun for the civil war era. For a first colt should I get a 1851 or 1861? I probably like the looks of 1861 better, but Wild Bill shot 1851's - and thats cool.

Bardo

[Geraldo]

For a first colt should I get a 1851 or 1861? I probably like the looks of 1861 better, but Wild Bill shot 1851's - and thats cool.

Bardo

Colt made about six times more 1851s than 1861s, so if you wanted the more common revolver the '51 is it. In Ubertis, the only difference between '51, '61, and Leech and Rigdon .36s is the barrel. My next C&B revolvers will be a pair of '51s.

[gnoahhh]

All good advice. I would only add that if you plan on shooting it a lot, go with a steel frame over a brass one. It won't shoot loose as quickly. I use a Cash snail drum-style capper and have never had an issue using it with any make or model C&B revolver. Really the only thing I dislike about any of the Colts is that the sight picture disappears when I pull the trigger, but that's pretty inconsequential.

[Mk42gunner]

Bardo,

I haven't had a Remington yet, so I can't really comment on them.

I have had several 1851's and one 1861. I like the streamlined looks of the 61 better, it is a little bit easier to seat the balls with it, but not enough to matter.

IIRC the grip is smaller on the 1862 since it was made on the .31 caliber frame.

I haven't noticed any real difference in cleaning itervals between one of the .36 caliber Colts and a .44 cal 1860.

One major difference I have noticed between the two Uberti's and the multiple Pietta's is that both of my Uberti's need to have a .380" ball to shave lead, the Piettas all work with a .375" ball.

Good luck, they are all fun.

Robert

[coopieclan]

I have a Pietta .44 Remington (all steel). It works so well, I wish my car was as consistent.

There are more choices than just .36 cal (Navy)

The Pocket Revolver and the Wells Fargo (1849) are 32. cal and are always open top (I think)
The trigger guard and loading lever are variables. Some have no loading lever and some have only a spur trigger.

I have a .22 Cap and ball revolver from North American Arms
It is not historically accurate but it is a fun alternative to the big B0OM of the .44

I tried a "Snake Eyes Derringer", it was a piece of junk.
Don't use a home made gun unless you like something that doesn't always go off.

[Tom-ADC]

Why not just get a Remington 1858 Navy in .36? I have a pair and they are as smooth as silk.

[JIMinPHX]

It's been my experience that the quality, fit & finish of a C&B revolver varies more from individual gun to individual gun than it does from brand to brand. You can get a great one right out of the box from either Pietta Brothers or Uberti. You can get a lemon from either one too.

For me, cleaning any of them is about the same.

I've been told that the loading levers with the little spur gear on them are problematic, but I've never fooled with them my self.

As for a capper working on the open top C&B revolvers better than a '58 Rem, that depends on the individual capper that you are trying to use. Some work well, others are less friendly to play with.

[Gunsmith4570]

I have use both Colt and Remington style guns, and they both have their own unique problems. When I started CAS I used one of each to get started a .36 Lyman square back proably made by Pietta and a Pietta .44 remington. As far as fouling was concerned, I could tell no difference in a full afternoon Cowboy shoot, or for that matter during practice sessions. Go with what feels best to you, or get one of each and you won't go far wrong.

Gunsmith4570

[missionary5155]

Good morning
Got my first 1851 many years ago & have numerous now. For just a fun shooter I shoot them as mauch as any. But I also have small hands (5-9 & 155 pounds) so for me this size revolver works just fine. I have always thought a 5" barreled model 1851 would be just about perfect for me but have never got to one to use.
But for popping at wabbits & other garden raides the .36 will easily do them all in. And as noted above... 15 grains of powder & ball make for alot of inexpensive shooting.
I also have 44´s and they get used but no where as much as the .36´s. Well the Ruger goes about every trip to the range..
Mike in Peru

[Mk42gunner]

Mike,

What a coincidence, both of my Uberti's were 5" barrels. The one I have now is still stock, the one I had in the early nineties I modified by soldering on a set of 1911 match sights, then changing the hammer to sort of resemble a Bisley profile. It shot groups that would equal a S&W 25-2 that I had at the time.

Wish I still had both of those guns.

Robert

[Bardo]

I think I'm going to get the 1851. I won't get the brass frame. But is there any other models from Pietta or Uberti that aren't historically correct? I want one that would have been found in the civil war.

Bardo

[Mk42gunner]

I think I'm going to get the 1851. I won't get the brass frame. But is there any other models from Pietta or Uberti that aren't historically correct? I want one that would have been found in the civil war.

Bardo

Besides the brass frames, the .44 cal 1851's are definitely not correct. Also I think they were only made with 7 1/2" barrels; the 5" replicas shoot pretty good but are hard to load due to the short rammer.

The 1851 was primarily made in the naval caliber-- .36. I have seen a picture of one that was supposed to be factory original in .40 caliber, it was in one of Elmer Keith's books, "Hell, I Was There" IIRC.

Robert

[NickSS]

There are several 1851 colt revolvers made today and as for being accurate replicas the most accurate are made by Uberti. They have the correct dimentions and correct finish for the several models both military and civilian. The only ones closer are the Colt second generation ones that are no longer made. I compared one of them to an original colt 1851 that is owned by a friend of mine and all the parts and screws are interchangable. The Uberti's are also almost just as close. The Piatta pistols are good solid guns that shoot well but they are metric and their cylinders and barrels are a bit smaller in diameters on the inside and the screws and nipples are metric sized. The originals were not.

[coopieclan]

I shot up this target today with the '58
30 gr Pyrodex and some CCI caps.
Shot indoors @ 10 yards,
not too bad after not shooting for months.

[Bardo]

Yours hits high and to the left like mine. Were you shooting round balls? How is it shooting 6 shots in a indoor range of black powder? Always wondered what that would of been like 150 years ago in a saloon when you get a couple of guys shooting.

Bardo