I was cleaning with Hoppes after each shot with the .475 and getting minimal lead coming out near the throat. When I switched to Marvel Mystery oil (It is red) the leading quadrupled. Maybe ATF reacts the same way. I thought the oil would lubricate the bore, gave it one good dry patch after wet, but was way wrong.
I’m not sure MMO is even a lubricant. Its’ certainly not a high pressure lubricant. Darn stuff will gum up if left over a season in model airplane engines. The red in ATF is dye and has nothing to do with it’s properties other than to distinguish it from motor oil.
ATF would probably produce carbon if left in the bore before a shot. Especially in an AR gas system.
Have used ATF added to a petrol engine that had a rear main oil seal leak.
It was a case of removing engine or trying the atf.
Added atf to engine oil, ran the engine for a few weeks and the leak stopped . Changed the oil and all was good. Engine did 140 000 miles with not a hint of problems nor leaks.
It was a 1989 Subaru sherpa with a 600cc paralell twin engine.
That's refreshingNot a Ford guy at all. But God bless them, if it weren't for Fords, us techs, wrecker drivers, and parts suppliers would all be broke and homeless.
Ooooohhhhh! First some nice words, then the shiv in the back!
I'm a Ford girl, by training and by trade...but I suppose other companies make nice vehicles, too.
I've used CLP, Tetra oil and grease, Hoppe's, all different kinds of dedicated 'gun' oils and potions. I've not found any of them to perform better than the automotive chemicals I've fallen back on.
I share the opinion of others, that if an oil or other chemical is safe and effective on a vehicle, operating at much higher temperatures and pressures, it will work fine on my guns.
I still use Hoppe's to clean bores, mainly because I have a ton of it. But for lube and other cleaners, it's back to the auto shop.
(Aced L1 on recert last year)
If they didn't break, you would be working in the QuickLane, or having to find another trade! Maybe it's just because they sell so danged many of them in Texas, but I swear when the work gets slow for a minute, we chant a few "Praise Henrys" and usually a Ford will ride in on a hook and help make the paycheck! I worked for a Ford dealer myself for three years, I'd still be there if the service manager hadn't been such a splendid all-around crook. But I've done the indie thing for quite a while now, so I have no biases, I get to fix everyone's broken stuff and engineering disasters
One thing I've learned about automotive lubes, they're all good. I've never seen a failure directly caused by the lubricant itself, whether that be grease, engine oil, diff oil, atf, etc. Failures are due to lack of lubricant, incorrect lubricant and/or contamination, not of lube quality, the API sees to that. Same thing with guns.
Gear
BTW, congrats on aceing the recert, very few people know what a buggar that test is. It's the "BAR" exam for automotive technicians.
To: gearnasher or wrench,
My SO has a business running four E-250 vans operating at average GVW of approximately 7,600 lbs.
Front ball joints are typically a 110M mileage part. Service center places zerts in the grease plugs then lube the BJ’s with chassis grease at the oil change interval. In the manual it says to use Ford spec(whatever) ball joint grease. Now I mentioned this once and got that glare. Simply put its her business. Well you know this person is special and she makes great French Toast for breakfast so to puddle with those ball joints. I’m somewhat confident we’d get more miles out of ball joints with the Ford Spec grease in them Especially since the OEM joints lasted longer originally with no added lube and the zert plugs just left in. Last replacement joints with chassis grease lasted about 60M miles. We run ten ply Michelin tires last longer than that and the bad BJ’s take out the tires which are huge money anymore.
Don't blame the grease, blame the design, I blame it on excessive unsprung mass of typical Ford Twin I-beam suspension. I make good money on Ford ball joints and GM pitman and idler arms. At the Ford house I was the front-end man, made most of my living replacing ball joints and power steering parts. Even Moog Problem-Solver ball joints won't hold up under a Ford van or truck, 80K miles is a rough average WITH proper maintenance (every oil change). You're right, the sealed units last about as long and you don't have to mess with them, so it really makes little difference, and type of grease (I've used all kinds and noted the long-term effects on many repeat customer's vehicles, as well as different brands of joints). Bottom line is consider them a maintenance item (along with the sway bar end bushings in the axle beams), and have the front end aligned every 25-30K miles on the Twin I-beam vehicles since they continually settle and the camber angle gets out of whack. Loose/worn wheel bearings don't help matters, either.
Gear
Ford Chevy my dad drove wrecker for years. Being in the towing business he found out one thing be it Ford Chevy or Dodge they all well leave you along side the road with a snot bubble in your nose. So if you think one is better then the other they all end up on the back of a wrecker sooner or later.
Yes my grandma wears combat boots. But remember her carry weapon is a Ruger .454
Thanks Geargnasher:
Sounds like I actually made the right decision for once and just ate that French Toast and kept my mouth shut.
What they need for the GVW they run is E-350 vans but she says they tried that twenty years ago and the trucks beat there guts out in harsh ride. I’ve tried to tell here they could spring the E-350 correctly to the load but that falls on deaf ears too.
The vans are getting pretty beet down but the profit margins have slimed the last few years so cash for new trucks isn’t sitting in the bank. I’m sure you’ve customers in the same situation. Lots of companies coasting through this recession on assets they hold but that can’t last for the ten years economist say it will take to turn around the economy.
They run about as many miles on the trucks. Just when they get to the customers house they only have there carpets cleaned in the heavy traffic areas instead of doing the whole house. 90% of payment is with credit card or post dated check.
yes if you drive them neglected until they quit you need to be very lucky to have them quite in your drive way.Originally Posted by colt 357
Have been driving since 1971 and never called a tow truck. Some of that is just luck as I’ve been dead stick twice but the grade was all down hill to the next service station. Fixed plenty alongside the road since we had no cell phones.
I'm right there with Geargnasher. Ball joints on older Ford trucks are a maintenance item, they just don't live that long.
If you're getting 110k out of them, especially in heavy service, you're doing well.
The Ford twin I beam front suspension was around a long time, and is massively strong. It does have issues, however, with ball joint and tire wear.
Any decent brand of chassis grease is fine, I don't think you could tell a dime's worth of difference among them.
I think folks get too wound up in brand name, if it meets API specs and viscosity standards for the vehicle, run with it.
The bottom line with motor oil is, change it! We see veeeeery few oil related engine failures in vehicles that have had regular maintenance.
My 2 cents.
The best bore/gun cleaner I have ever used is diesel fuel. I keep 3-4 inches of diesel in a plastic tub, disassemble and bathe my handguns in it. It's a great light oil solvent cleaner and makes bluing look wonderful. After cleaning I take an air hose and blow off the excess, wipe semi dry then lube as usual.
I am surprised to hear that breakfree has teflon in it. I was always told to NEVER use teflon containing oil in the bore. As far as "no competitive shooters using ATF" well when I shot high power almost all the AR shooters (one was a retired gunnery srgt.)at my club used ATF for lube.The last club championship that I shot in was won by An ATF using competitor.He shot a score of 788-57x
The only "gotcha" I can think of for use of automotive lubes is the effect on the primers. I actually use motor oil and chassis grease for lubes, and ATF in the barrel. They work fine. I just try to keep the stuff from sitting on the ammo for vary long. BTW, I use castor oil for resizing, and it does not affect primers.
Last edited by Me not you; 09-25-2011 at 06:27 AM. Reason: typo
Thomas Paine:
“To argue with a person who has denounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.”
And none of you ATF guys ever wonder why the military won't use it for the AR?
So the military is all wrong?
The discussion is beneath further comment.
With regard to primers and penetrating oils, that is possible, with ATF or any gun oil, but as a rule of thumb I just keep it away/off the ammo....a simple fix and it isn't a problem unless the gun is stored with ammo in it or carried.
No, the military likes specific products like CLP that are supposed to do everything.
Dude, get over the Milspec thing. I don't use a jointed Al cleaning rod in my AR either.
I would be willing to bet that the Army and Marine competition shooting teams use things besides CLP for cleaning barrels also.
Have you ever considered that milspec is simply a term that says the item was designed for minimum performance standards, and no more?
The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"
Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!
No, the military is not wrong. Get over it. It is a good product for what it does - multipurpose, single item, that works very well in the field for it's intended purpose. If you want to use it on your personal firearms, by all means, have at it. But, you need to understand this. You are fighting a battle that you are simply NOT going to win. Let's move on to something important.
It ain't rocket science, it's boolit science.
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