Newbie having all sorts of troubles

[Budmen]

First let me explain my setup.
I have a turkey fryer 65,000 btu I believe on top of that a large cast iron pot bought from a garage sale (no rust still all black). I use a large dipping laddle I obtained through a friend who had no idea what it for also cast(has minor rust) and about 8 buckets of wheel wieghts a couple pounds of pure antimony beads and a couple pounds of pure tin bar. I use Beeswax beads for flux.

My prediciment

I cast all the wheel wieghts into 1# Lyman ingots with no troubles. Since i am loading for 450 marlin, 45-70, 308mx, 30-06, 30-30 I was trying to reach a goal of lyman #2 with a brinell hardness of 15. My prilimanary ratio started at a rough calculation of .6# of antimony and .3# of tin since i hear you can cast with only 3% tin to save some money to 25# of ww. After an hour of fluxing mixing repeating I get this nasty layer of dross or what i thought was dross. It was a grey and black dust probally 1/4" thick on the whole surface. After skimming the dross and fluxing again i cast into ingots and tested with a lee tester to come out to only a 12bhn. So back to the smelter i went with another .25# of antimony and .18# of tin. Only to produce the same dust again and when re casted it turned out to be 12BHN again..

Is there something i am doing wrong i heat the mixture and then add tin to it then flux like crazy and then sprinkle antimony beads stir flux stir flux stir flux..... I am concerned the "dust" I am removing is the antimony I paid for...Could it be i am just that dumb and my calculations are off that far? Am i picking up containments somewhere or somehow? I do not have a Lead thermometer could i not have enough heat? Ive read and read this and the lasc boards but im coming up empty handed.....

Sorry for the long post but i figure i can help cause allot of questions by explaining everything I can before you casting gurus ask..Any help would be appreciated since I am dead in the water right now and just cant see throwing more and more materials tward this in a sense elliminating the cost savings of casting Thanks for the great resource and any help in advance I have learned to cast with lead and linotype and pure lead and bought #2 from this site it trully is a great thing but know i need help Thanks

[badbob454]

i dont know how to add straight antimony beads to a melt maybe someone else can help . i use linotype and solder to add to my alloy

[Budmen]

Looking back now i wished i bought the linotype or the hardball casting lead that rotometals sell but hindsight is 20/20 right next time i will but i just cant see wasting what i have thanks

[clodhopper]

It takes a lot of heat to get the antimony to alloy.
There are other here more familar with the process, hopefully one will chime in.

[glicerin]

I've heard that antimony alloys best with tin(in small amounts with lead). Lots of fluxing, try different waxes, charring wood sticks.

[Sgt Petro]

By itself, pure Antimony (Sb) melts at 1166 F. Sounds like you simply are not getting your melt hot enough to blend both elements.

I think you are probably correct in assuming you're skimming off your Sb.

[KYCaster]

Your main problem is testing immediately after casting. Wait 48 hrs. then test, you'll probably be close to your target hardness.

The gray dross....is it really light weight? If so then its just burnt flux. Skim it off and throw it away.

You can add Sb at normal smelting temps., you don't need extreme heat. A search will turn up at least three threads that describe the process.

Good luck.
Jerry

[badbob454]

Looking back now i wished i bought the linotype or the hardball casting lead that rotometals sell but hindsight is 20/20 right next time i will but i just cant see wasting what i have thanks

perhaps you could melt the antimony with a torch and when it is melted add it to the hot @ 750 degree lead melt maybe it will blend .. cross fingers he he

[Suo Gan]

[QUOTE=Budmen;1370212]First let me explain my setup.
I have a turkey fryer 65,000 btu I believe on top of that a large cast iron pot bought from a garage sale (no rust still all black). I use a large dipping laddle I obtained through a friend who had no idea what it for also cast(has minor rust) and about 8 buckets of wheel wieghts a couple pounds of pure antimony beads and a couple pounds of pure tin bar. I use Beeswax beads for flux.
Don't worry about the rust. You will need to flux your pot heavily and I would suggest dry sawdust and scrape the sides of the pot with a piece of kindling. Once this is done add the tin as you wish for your alloy, melt the antimony in a crucible of some kind with a torch, 'alloy' it in the crucible 50/50 with lead right there. Then add that alloy to the pot. I think this will take care of your predicament. The 'dust' you are taking out was your antimony.

I would also suggest not getting into raw antimony and complex alloying in the future as it raises the BS meter to the tedious level from the start. Just think simple right now. There is no need to do anything complex. Run your melt hot, clean your mold good, use a good lube, and find out your rifles measurements and fit your bullet to that.

Have fun with it!! This is the main thing.

[bumpo628]

Next time you could pick up some of the Rotometals Superhard (30% antimony / 70% lead).
That will make your mixing easier.

[Budmen]

Thanks for all the help...
One question when using sawdust is there a special wood i should use or just what comes outta my dust collector for my wood working tools a mixture of red white oak some pine some plywood....

Also when using sawdust wont that containminate the lead real bad or will it just be allot of dross???

So 48hrs will make a difference in my bhn I dont think i ever read that maybe im just forgetting but i will give it a try

And yes i wish i read up on all this before i ordered the pure elements but truth be told never again I just figured it would be cheaper in the long run but if i figure the propane and time im loosing so much......

[Mauser Rat]

You are looking for the carbon after the sawdust burns to flux your melt. So any species works (I use a lot of yellow cedar and spruce) because it is the carbon left over from burning it that you want . And you get carbon from ANY wood when you burn it. Sprinkle DRY sawdust on the top of your melt and let it smolder and burn BEFORE you try to mix it down into your pot or you will be visited by the tinsel fairy. Same with that kindling. If it has ANY water in it you will find out what the tinsel fairy is if you do not already know. Wait until the kindling is charred and dry before you immerse it in the lead.

The carbon in the burned flux is what helps the metal to mix back into the lead by reversing oxidation of your metals. Then you can simply skim the dross off the top if you are ladle casting. I have a bottom pour pot and simply leave a layer of char on the surface of the melt to slow down oxidation. It is not a contaminant. It is saving the most expensive parts of your alloy.

Have a good one and watch out for that tinsel fairy. Don't ask me how I know about her majesty,

Kevin

[dragonrider]

What Mauser Rat said but I will reiterate that when you put sawdust ontop of your melt DO NOT mix it into your melt until it has burned to ash completely. Two reasons, it won't flux worth a hoot before it turns to ash because the carbon is what does the trick and second therre is that tinsel fairy thing. No matter how dry you think sawdust is........... IT AIN'T. Any amount of moisture getting below the surface of melted lead will expand into steam 16 hundred times its original volume instantly. That means large amounts of hot lead flying out of the pot in all directions, that can be very painful.
What wood does not really matter unlless you have allergies to certain woods or nuts, if so do not use woods like walnut, chestnut etc, pressure treated wood should also be avoided.

[shotman]

You said "beads" you have alot of surface area and Sb will oxidize, so you are not getting much REAL metal. would be best to get the chunks next time .
as for saw dust cut some of your wood WITHOUT the plywood. It has glue in it and will not make a good carbon flux

[cajun shooter]

Pat Marlin on this forum sells a wood flux that I have used for over 3 years now. It is not sawdust but more like shavings. It has a wonderful smell that my wife loves. He packs a Priority Mail Box so full that I used one for over two years. I even add a small handful after my alloy is fluxed as it protects the mix from oxidation and leaves a nice smell to your casting area. It's well worth the $20 TYD.

[fredj338]

AS noted, antimony is diff to melt on it's own, but easily melts as part of an alloy. I don't think you really need to add much antimony to clip ww to get to Lyman #2. At 9# of ww + 1# of lino, pretty close, melts together nicely & makes it a whole lot easier.

[largom]

Testing for BHN right after casting will give false readings. I have found that "air cooled" boolits require up to 4 weeks to "age harden" and stabilize. For my hunting boolits I mix 60% lead and 40% WW with 1% added tin air cooled and aged.

Larry

[Budmen]

Well i waited for 48hrs like suggested to do yet another brinell hardness test i also took the chance to add 1/4lb more antimony fluxed and fluxed and stirred for 1hr and 15min still got the dust and again got bhn of 12.5 I have some pure lead i think i will try to make up some 30% antimony to alloy later but what can i do now nothing i do raises my bhn and i am wasting more and more pure antimony.........I read all over how people do it but i cannot get the mixture to change maybe ill add another pound see if that changes anything

[onondaga]

Plus 1 on what Larry said. Your BHN12 alloy will age to about 15 in a month.

If you alloy so your bullets drop at BHN 15 they will rise in hardness also in about a month. I think you have already got good results and you should just start casting boolits.

Also when alloying different metals it is easiest to get the highest melt temp metal fluid first and then add metals descending in melt temps. Antimony doesn't just melt right in--- it dissolves slowly into alloy like a cough drop melts in your mouth and there is no way to rush dissolving Antimony into a boolit alloy. It takes patience and stirring helps too.


Gary

[R.M.]

You might want to visit this site. It might clear some issues up.

http://www.theantimonyman.com/