Problem with Lee push-through sizer dies

[d0n]

Methinks you are a water dropper! Turning good cast bullets into cement by drooping them in water has never seemed like a worthy idea to me.

If you are not a water dropper, lube the first couple of bullets with just about anything and there should be no problems with any decent press. But that does call into question the quality of your press.

Forgive me is a couple of my cast bullet and reloading prejudices are showing.... just saying!

Indeed, some were water dropped. I'll have to double check to see if these are the ones that I was trying to size.

As far as the quality of the press... it's a Lee. I did some reading, and I guess snapping the toggle links is a fairly common problem on that particular press if the bolt that holds the crossbar/lever assembly isn't very tight. I didn't know this before, so I can't vouch for how snugged down the bolt actually was. But, when I ordered the replacement toggle links, I made sure the bolt was tight, and this time the press ripped apart my reloading bench instead of self-destructing, so I'm going to claim responsibility on the snapped toggle links.

[d0n]

What to use?

Do you have any J-bullets? If so there is a starting point. Remington and Sierra have their diammeter on the boox they came in. Hornady 44's is normally .430, Sierra is normally .4295

Really try any J-bullet and measure it 4 or 5 times (or more) until it comes out right the first time without you having to fiddle with it to get the correct diameter. Remember - the lead boolit is always easier to dig into when the jaws come together and the boolit sides are not perpendicular to the jaws.

I'm assuming you mean "jacketed" by J-bullet (still learning ) I wasn't sure if I could trust jacketed bullets to hold true to their nominal size. I'll give that a try, and then that'll give me something to reload with until I get the casting figured out.

For me - WW Air cooled is normally from 2 week to months/years before they are sized. some aloys grow as they age up to about 2 to 3 weeks. Also the harder the boolit the more sping back you have when you size them. How much? - depends on the hardness and the aloy.

You mileage may vary - depending on what, when, where, and how you do your casting and sizing.

I was going to ask if I should size them closer to when they were cast (perhaps as soon as they're cool enough) but does this imply that if I size too soon, that they will still swell after being sized?

You really need to slug your bore and check against your cylinder throats. As long as the slugged bore is smaller than you throats - size to you largest throat and go have some fun!

Yeah, I'm going to pick up some sinkers today. I watched some videos about slugging the barrels, but I'm still a little nervous about hammering lead into them (especially the blackhawk, where I would have to go in muzzle-first (which is something I was always told not to do, whether it's true or not). If I do end up shooting as-cast, how much oversize can they be? If it turns out that they are .452, would it be safe to fire a .457 boolit through? (I'm mainly concerned about the blackhawk. I wasn't planning on trying to shoot the 45-270-SAA through my 1911)

[GRUMPA]

dOn,
I've had mine for over 27yrs now and to be honest the only direction as far as where to get micrometers is thru a search engine (GOOGLE). This is what I have:
http://global.ebay.com/BROWN-AND-SHA...855064813/item

Not knowing how big of a city you live in I couldn't answer your question about getting them locally, but I would expect you couldn't. These little gems are too specialized, normally the are shipped from some sort of a supplier.

[Char-Gar]

dOn... I have been at this reloading activity for quite a spell and the only reloading presses I have ever heard of snapping toggle links are made by Lee. That was the source of my comment on decent presses. I just can't imagine snapping the toggle link on a decent quality press. That just should not happen.

I have an old Pacific Super C press made back in the early 50's. I have done some really tough stuff with that press that required a four foot cheater bar slipped on the handle to give enough leverage to get er done. Nothing snapped on that press.

There are frequent and everlasting threads on this board about folks fiddling with Lee equipment to get it to work correctly. Reloading equipment should not require fixing to get it to work properly. It should work right out of the box and do so for a couple of generations. Please read my disclaimer below.

[wallenba]

I've had similar problems with a six cavity Lee 158 swc mold. It dropped really large at
.363-.364 . I size to .357 for my Smith because the throats are .357. If I sized .358 first, I could barely get them through. Final sizing at .357 wipes the crimp groove right off and most of the lube grooves one side. Junk. I use a lot of Lee molds, this is the only one I had trouble with.

[462]

dOn, a couple of suggestions:
Harbor Freight has a mechanical digital micrometer for less than $20. I strongly suspect that it is the same as those labeled with famous names. A caliper is generally considered accurate to +/- .01". A micrometer is generally considered accurate to +/- .001". A micrometer is ten times more accurate than a caliper.

As mentiuoned, water quenching is not necessary. In fact, you may discover that a straight wheel weight alloy is too hard. Too, I agree that you should give serious consideration to a press made of cast iron. Additionally, your bench needs some major reinforcing or complete a re-do.

If, after making more accurate measurements, the sizer is, indeed, .450" rather than .452", return it. Ask for a pre-paid label or a credit for the cost of return postage. There is no reason for you to have to accept out-of-spec equipment or pay for its return.

Keep at it...it'll all come right.

[MGySgt]

dOn,

There is always some spring back and I know that someone on here has done a test by sizing right after casting and then a day later, and then a day later, etc.... There was some growing from the boolits that were sized a day or two later, but not really enough to matter.

If your bore is .450 and your throats are 452 then you can size 452.

I don't think you will be able to chamber a .457 boolit.

remember this is suppose to be fun and uless you are anal about things, get your load to shoot acceptable to your specs and do some shooting. when you feel the round isn't accurate enough for you do some more load development.

You loading and casting techniques will get better and you can work better loads.

Just my 2 cents worth and good shooting!

[MikeS]

Two things. First you mentioned that you lubed with LLA. Did you size them while the LLA was still wet, or did you let it dry before pushing the boolits thru the die? LLA lubes much better when dry than it does when wet. If you're using LLA to tumble lube the boolits, then give them one coat before sizing, let them dry overnight, size them, then give them a second coat. If you were just using LLA to lube the boolits to get them thru the sizer, there are much better lubes for that job. On boolits that I'm going to pan lube, I'll spray them with Hornady's One Shot case lube then wait 20-30 minutes for it to dry, then I'll size, and pan lube to finish them.

Second thing is the way you're measuring them. As others have mentioned, for measuring boolits, you really should use a micrometer, rather than a caliper.

[milprileb]

I went through this long before I was a member here. I send the Lee sizing die and mold blocks back to Lee with bullets dropped, and bullets sized (same drama on hard sizing but Rock Chucker did not conk out).

Lee , inside 6 days, send repaired mold blocks back and new sizing die and all is well today.

I will say this and you can take your lumps as you want to take them. Its far easier to send product back to Lee and have it sorted out than trying all manner of remedies at home which are problematic.

My thoughts are: if made right, it works right.

I got nothing but great t hings to say about how Lee has gone out of their way many times to fix my problems and help me. The give me superb service and even when I fouled up the situation by stupidity, they just saved my bacon.

[d0n]

dOn,
I've had mine for over 27yrs now and to be honest the only direction as far as where to get micrometers is thru a search engine (GOOGLE). This is what I have:
http://global.ebay.com/BROWN-AND-SHA...855064813/item

Not knowing how big of a city you live in I couldn't answer your question about getting them locally, but I would expect you couldn't. These little gems are too specialized, normally the are shipped from some sort of a supplier.

Thanks for the suggestion. I'm currently looking for something similar to replace my calipers. I'll report back on the size of the boolits when I actually have a mic to use.

[d0n]

dOn, a couple of suggestions:
Harbor Freight has a mechanical digital micrometer for less than $20. I strongly suspect that it is the same as those labeled with famous names. A caliper is generally considered accurate to +/- .01". A micrometer is generally considered accurate to +/- .001". A micrometer is ten times more accurate than a caliper.

As mentiuoned, water quenching is not necessary. In fact, you may discover that a straight wheel weight alloy is too hard. Too, I agree that you should give serious consideration to a press made of cast iron. Additionally, your bench needs some major reinforcing or complete a re-do.

If, after making more accurate measurements, the sizer is, indeed, .450" rather than .452", return it. Ask for a pre-paid label or a credit for the cost of return postage. There is no reason for you to have to accept out-of-spec equipment or pay for its return.

Keep at it...it'll all come right.

lol, my calipers are actually the Harbor Freight calipers that you speak of. I'm currently looking for a good price on a mic. I've never used one outside of shop class in 8th grade; is this something I can buy second-hand and expect to still work, or are the screw mechanisms delicate enough that I should buy new so I don't have to worry about how well the previous owner cared for it?

[d0n]

dOn,

There is always some spring back and I know that someone on here has done a test by sizing right after casting and then a day later, and then a day later, etc.... There was some growing from the boolits that were sized a day or two later, but not really enough to matter.

If your bore is .450 and your throats are 452 then you can size 452.

I don't think you will be able to chamber a .457 boolit.

remember this is suppose to be fun and uless you are anal about things, get your load to shoot acceptable to your specs and do some shooting. when you feel the round isn't accurate enough for you do some more load development.

You loading and casting techniques will get better and you can work better loads.

Just my 2 cents worth and good shooting!

Thanks MGySgt. I actually am having fun, even though I still haven't cranked out any usable boolits yet. This looks like a fun hobby that I'll be able to stick with for years

[d0n]

Two things. First you mentioned that you lubed with LLA. Did you size them while the LLA was still wet, or did you let it dry before pushing the boolits thru the die? LLA lubes much better when dry than it does when wet. If you're using LLA to tumble lube the boolits, then give them one coat before sizing, let them dry overnight, size them, then give them a second coat. If you were just using LLA to lube the boolits to get them thru the sizer, there are much better lubes for that job. On boolits that I'm going to pan lube, I'll spray them with Hornady's One Shot case lube then wait 20-30 minutes for it to dry, then I'll size, and pan lube to finish them.

Second thing is the way you're measuring them. As others have mentioned, for measuring boolits, you really should use a micrometer, rather than a caliper.

Yes, they were still wet when I attempted to size. I applied the LLA right before passing it through the sizer. Never in a million years would I have guessed that they would size better after the LLA dries, but hindsight being 20/20, I guess I can see why that would make sense.

In general, I plan to pan lube after sizing (at least with my RCBS 45-270-SAA and the MiHec molds that I'm getting), so I'll keep your suggestion about the Hornady's case lube in mind.

[cajun shooter]

First, Let me say that I attended machinist school for two years which makes me a 1/2 of one. I have never had a single occasion in my over 40 years of casting and loading where the accuracy between a set of calipers and a micrometer made the least bit of difference.
Lee sizing dies only have a very narrow strip inside of them that sizes the cast bullets. The Quality of the Lee equipment is not as good as other brands when compared across the board. If you size your bullets as soon as they are dropped then they may spring back to the as cast diameter within a day or so. If you have had good service using Lee moulds and bullets then more power to you. I have never seen any type of competition that was won with the winner using Lee bullets, lube or moulds. I have some Lee that does the job that I have for it and that is fine. The quality control of the moulds has a long way to go. There was a company that sells the steel parts to fix the press linkage as it has a reputation for breaking.
If you stay with casting long enough and decide to invest into some custom moulds, then you will also need to throw away all that mule snot and use a good lube that is applied with a lube and size machine. I started with a Lee 38 spl loading kit where you used a hammer in 1968. I still have that kit. Lee does the job of getting you started for a cheap price. That is as far as they are able to go.

[d0n]

First, Let me say that I attended machinist school for two years which makes me a 1/2 of one. I have never had a single occasion in my over 40 years of casting and loading where the accuracy between a set of calipers and a micrometer made the least bit of difference.
Lee sizing dies only have a very narrow strip inside of them that sizes the cast bullets. The Quality of the Lee equipment is not as good as other brands when compared across the board. If you size your bullets as soon as they are dropped then they may spring back to the as cast diameter within a day or so. If you have had good service using Lee moulds and bullets then more power to you. I have never seen any type of competition that was won with the winner using Lee bullets, lube or moulds. I have some Lee that does the job that I have for it and that is fine. The quality control of the moulds has a long way to go. There was a company that sells the steel parts to fix the press linkage as it has a reputation for breaking.
If you stay with casting long enough and decide to invest into some custom moulds, then you will also need to throw away all that mule snot and use a good lube that is applied with a lube and size machine. I started with a Lee 38 spl loading kit where you used a hammer in 1968. I still have that kit. Lee does the job of getting you started for a cheap price. That is as far as they are able to go.

Well, the mold is RCBS (45-270-SAA) but the push-through sizer is Lee.

But while we're talking about the mold...

I think in an earlier reply I mentioned that mold doesn't completely close (if I look very carefully I can see light between the blocks when it's supposed to be closed). What is the best way to fix this?

[MGySgt]

But while we're talking about the mold...

I think in an earlier reply I mentioned that mold doesn't completely close (if I look very carefully I can see light between the blocks when it's supposed to be closed). What is the best way to fix this?

First ensure you do not have any lead on the face of the mould halfs keeping them from closing.

If that is not the problem:

Call RCBS and send it back - the alignment pins (or pin) is out too far keeping the mould from closing all the way.

Either let RCBS triage the issue or adjust the alignment pins. More nerve racking than difficult. I used my bench vice to ajust mine.

[GRUMPA]

dOn,

On micrometers you can go in more than one direction. If you go digital you get what you pay for, If you do remember one thing. You go and get one and drop it somehow (and this always seems to happen) most of the time THAT'S IT. And for the sake of splitting hairs (arguing) lets say you get them and the battery goes out, how much does a new one cost now-a-days. Not to mention when you need it you need it NOW.

And your right about the second hand stuff, but in reality it's a cr@p shoot. You'll never ever know until after you bought it if it works right for you. I really wouldn't buy "NEW" because I can't imagine what they cost now. My other pair that I sold were Swiss made called ETALON very pricey at the time.

[handyman25]

It has been covered already but I will add my two cents worth. I have done lots of gunsmithing over the last 45 years so here it goes:

Spend the money on a good 1 inch micrometer, starret is a good brand. Calibers are for rough work.

Slug your bore. I like lead boolits 1 to 2 thousand over bore.

I like lee sizers. Slug it with a lead sinker, lubed, and find out what size it is making. If wrong sell it (dislosure) or contact lee. I am sure they will make it right.

Contact RCBS on the mold, they are great and will make it right.

You are doing this the right way. Learn from others mistakes, it saves time.

[Junior1942]

..... LLA lubes much better when dry than it does when wet. .....

Maybe so, but I've lubed many 1,000s of cast bullets and sized them immediately afterwards. I never had a problem.

[d0n]

But while we're talking about the mold...

I think in an earlier reply I mentioned that mold doesn't completely close (if I look very carefully I can see light between the blocks when it's supposed to be closed). What is the best way to fix this?

First ensure you do not have any lead on the face of the mould halfs keeping them from closing.

If that is not the problem:

Call RCBS and send it back - the alignment pins (or pin) is out too far keeping the mould from closing all the way.

Either let RCBS triage the issue or adjust the alignment pins. More nerve racking than difficult. I used my bench vice to ajust mine.

OK, I'll give them a call today. It shouldn't be a problem if I've already used the mold? I'm sure there's no lead on the faces, I was pretty anal about getting that off after casting