Citric acid brass cleaner

[arjacobson]

I got to looking for citric acid without much luck.....Until I happened to check out a 5 gallon jug of stuff we use at work to get concrete off tools.... Guess what??? Citric acid!!! It is pretty potent stuff but should dilute a bit just fine...

[Bimmer74]

Hi, I'm new here, but I'm a regular on a bunch of other forums...

I'm sold on citric acid — yesterday I filled 5-gallon bucket half full of brass and boiling water and then added 1oz of powdered citric acid.

Unfortunately, a stainless pot would be neither "safe" nor desirable. Plastic or glass is much better.

At boiling hot temps, citric acid can heavily etch stainless steel. If the finish of the ss pot is no concern, one is still reducing the effectiveness of the solution, as the strength of the solution is divided between the brass and the ss, and weakened by the dissolved iron citrate...

I have a question about this... there are a lot of guys using stainless steel media and Lemi Shine (citric acid) to good effect.

Is it OK to mix brass with stainless steel at lower temperatures? How hot can citric acid be before it etches stainless steel?


Edit: I'm thinking of using a cement mixer with a painted steel drum as an agitator/tumbler. I had anticipated either adding more paint and/or plasti-dipping in the interior of the drum. Will citric acid remove the paint/Plasti-Dip?

[fuji]

I sell chemistry for the metal finishing industry mag phos, zinc phos and all the chemistry to clean and prep the metals. First I am really impressed on the level of knowledge I just read!!!

Let me give a few thoughts: first Citric acid is very good to use and lemon or orange or grapefruit is citric acid I would think that the lemon concentrate in the green bottle at the grocery store would work. I agree powdered citric is at the health food stores.

Phosphoric also works and acetic should too. All the acids are removing the oxides on the surface of the brass and does take some of the brass off but you only want a slight etch on the surface so used correctly it is perfectly safe. This chemical deoxidizing the surface. When you tumble it is mechanical burnishing. You remove the oxide on the surface and the soils too. But this is a gentle process when using corn or walnut shells.

I tumble but if I had any really bad brass I wouldn't hesitate to use any of them. I would try Coke too.

Joe

[goofyoldfart]

Fugi: I have used the green bottle lemon juice along with a dash of Dawn soap with water and use a 20.00 dollar harbor freight tumbler. 30 minutes does it well-- an hour if really dirty. Citric is easier for me to find. and I can use the lemon juice to make lemonade while waiting for the brass to shine. No Coke--my doctor forbids it, too much sugar for my system while waiting I can drink the lemonade and harass the cat. she love it. God Bless to all.

[steg]

I've been happy with the results I got from just using cheap bottled lemon juice from Aldis, or any of the non name brands, again I'm frugal, after running all my casings thru a batch of mix, I just dump it, as to the measurements, I dont know, just a by gosh and a by golly, and go with it, if it seems too weak just add more............................steg

[smokemjoe]

steg : I just got a big bottle of l. juice from Aldis today for $1.78, have a can full of bad looking 9 MM cases , I dump 1/4 of the bottle on them, water to cover with some stanley grease remove and in a few mins. they are bright and look like new, Dont even look like they need tumbled now, Wished I would of knew that 50 years ago, Thanks

[Baja_Traveler]

If you work someplace that has hot water boilers or steam generators, talk to the building maintenance guy and make friends - he'll have a pallet load of Citric Acid in 30 pound bags for de-scaling the boilers. Most are willing to let a coffee can full walk out the door...

[SWANEEDB]

I too am now useing citric acid (lemmon juice) vinegar and water, about 15 or 20 min soak, rinse 3 times with very hot water and spread out under a fan to dry. What I really like doing it that way is a little moisture remains in the primer, has just about elimited all the powder residue coming out to screw up my primer feed in my 550.

[Alby]

>If that doesn’t work, you might want to consider my personal favorite, phosphoric acid. Like citric, it is non-toxic and you can pour it down the drain when you’re done. And it's in the soda pop you drink. Buy it at any chemical supply store or at your local hardware as ‘Naval Jelly’ Heat up a gallon of water until it’s uncomfortable to stick your hand in. The solution will work much better if it’s warm, but you can use cold water just about as well. Then add a small squirt of momma’s dish detergent and stir in a two or three tablespoons of the acid, whichever you were able to find. Now toss in your deprimed cases and watch it work – if you can. I’ve seen some grungy cases look almost new before they hit the bottom of the jug. Yet you can leave the cases in for days without any harm.

Hope this helps.[/COLOR]

Ok, I tried the citric acid and was not impressed with the results. I tried the "Naval Jelly" tonight and honestly thought I would just have a left over bottle of jelly when I was done. I took the crappiest military ammo I had, vintage 1942, and dropped this into a coffee can with the mix. I shook the can for agitation for about a min and drained it to look at the results. Well I must say they did come clean and a lot of the tarnish was gone. I am now sure that if I would have left them in longer the results would have even been better. They are clean, not a lot of shine, but for a 1 min clean I am more than happy with the results. Even if I throw these in the tumbler for a shine I will still have very clean and shinny brass in far less than an hour. I have been convienced,but now what do I do with that second tumbler? Thanks for the tip!

[cabezaverde]

Wow, tried it on some WW2 30-06 I had for my Garand. Works great.

Does anyone just put brass treated like this into storage without tumbling?

[MakeMineA10mm]

Wow, tried it on some WW2 30-06 I had for my Garand. Works great.

Does anyone just put brass treated like this into storage without tumbling?

I've just started doing the citric acid bath in the last 3 months. I started on my 1000-piece lot of Korean-era 30-06 arsenal brass and it really cleaned it up. There was only a small percentage (<100) that I tumbled post-citric bath. I've since ran them all through the annealing process, and my next steps are running a bore-brush in the necks (to get the remainder of the tar-like sealant still left after the citric acid) and then a trip through the rapid-trim die.

This hasn't been anything close to what I call "long-term" storage, but there's no discernable problems so far. Also, if you check back a few pages, you'll see a technical discussion about how citric acid treatment "passivates" the brass, making it in better shape for long-term storage and future use. I definitely trust the OP's and Molly's opinions/statements about it.

It's been a long time since I've been around naval jelly, but I seem to remember a slight petroleum smell to it. I find it interesting that Dillon's blue rapid polish does as well...

[Wayne Smith]

I've been using powdered citric and water for some time now. Keeping it in a plastic kitchen bowl with lid. It's turning quite green, and has been sitting for several months before I opened it a few minutes ago. I found a layer of a grey/white plastic looking and feeling skim on the top - almost like a layer of paint. Yes, I have cleaned BP brass in this.

Any idea what this is? I just picked it up and tossed it in the trash.

[mold maker]

If the skim is mold, dip it off and make it hot to kill bacteria. Likely if it's turned really green it is time to pour it down the drain and mix some more. It's not like it's expensive.

[Wayne Smith]

It had more the characteristics of a bacteria mat rather than a mold. Lots of them in Yellowstone NP.

[a.squibload]

The last couple of times I purchased Prestone Super Flush concentrate, the active ingredient was citric acid. prs

Hmm, another use for bulk citric acid? Bet it's cheaper than Super Flush.
I only put antifreeze and distilled water in my radiators, no minerals to build up.


Wayne: ever seen the "mother" in non-distilled vinegar? That's what I found
in a jar of used citric acid solution, kind of a milky blob resting on the bottom.
Poured it out.

[PeterAnderson]

Hi Guys,

Just a qick update and a reply to Bimmer74. I have been using the ultrasonic cleaner and citric acid for 4-months now. I am cleaning Lapua brass; I fill the stainless steel tank with 'just off' boiling water and add 4-5 teaspoons of citric. I leave the thing running for 4 X 480 second cycles and there is NO damage at all to the tank.

Result - fantastic clean brass and niot even the slightest residue left in the primer pocket.

Many thanks everyone for a fantastic thread.

[Unclenick]

Without reading all 21 pages of the thread again, I'll point out I'm surprised at all the low concentrations mentioned. The now out-of-print NRA book Handloading mentions 5% citric acid by weight, specifically, as an arsenal formula. The acid action seems to be self limiting. I use that with a dash of dishwashing liquid to help suspend dirt and carbon.

Here's what 30 minutes in a heated (140°F) 5% citric acid in an ultrasonic can do with corroded brass:

Before:




30 Minutes Later:





Also, this:

[a.squibload]

Not seeing the pics???

[Wayne Smith]

I've been using powdered citric and water for some time now. Keeping it in a plastic kitchen bowl with lid. It's turning quite green, and has been sitting for several months before I opened it a few minutes ago. I found a layer of a grey/white plastic looking and feeling skim on the top - almost like a layer of paint. Yes, I have cleaned BP brass in this.

Any idea what this is? I just picked it up and tossed it in the trash.

Still don't know what it is but it is an immediate reaction to placing cases used with BP into the solution. I put some in a new solution and I could see the reaction occuring, threads of this stuff coming out of the cases. It pretty much exhausts the solution, too. Cleaned those 44-40 cases, but not the ones I put in next.

Made a new solution.

[mold maker]

After long storage it (citric acid solution) is often found to have a type of mold growing on the surface. Acid that has turned green is ready for replacement, but if still clear, the mold can be dipped off , and the acid used.
No more expensive than it is, I toss it rather than store it for long term.
The great thing about citric acid is, that it is safe to dispose of, just as you would soda pop.