Tumble Lubing--Made Easy & Mess-Free

[MikeS]

Well, I cast up a bunch of 452423's and tumble lubed them with my LLA/Hoppes blend with 2 coats (tumble/size/tumble) and I took some pix of them. The first one is the 50 boolits after they've dried (and with the added Hoppes they dry much faster and less tacky than straight LLA) and the second pic is the same boolits loaded and ready to be loaded into magazines for my 1911. (Elmer would be proud!)

I must say, with the addition of the Hoppes the coating seems much lighter, more like folks here say they should look like rather than when I use LLA straight. I wonder if the Hoppes is adding anything more than just thinning it some?

[crabo]

Still sticky after 24 hours in 85-90 degrees. I guess I will coat with some mica. Any advice for next time?

[Fire_stick]

I would try a little less alox. That is the sticky stuff.

[Hamish]

Being a KISS kind of guy, (OK, OK, I'm LAZY!), the whole cooking it off thing bothered me right off. So,,,,, I pared the recipe down to:
1. Set the can of JPW in a pot with enough water to not quite float the can.
2. Apply heat till it melts and shut heat off.
3. Stir in one small bottle of Alox.

Waah-Laah, Bob's yer uncle. Have used this on .45's, .303, 7.62x54, and 7.92x57 up to 2000 fps. so far.


Second eckspariment in progress:

1. Melt two and one half pounds RandyRat's beeswax.
2. Add one can of mixed JPW/LLA

When hardened it will be soft enough that you can dimple it if you push on it, unlike straight beeswax.
Next step is going to be take one pound of bees/JP/LL and shave it into mixer bowl and add Lucas brand X-TRA Heavy Duty Wheel Bearing Grease. (It's green, for what it's worth, I don't know if this is as good as the super-duper rhino snot thick red stuff for marine applications.)
I like the idea of NOT cooking anything out of recipe because when using it to pan lube it's going to be melted over and over.

Rich @(:^]#>:::

[mold maker]

Most of the solvent cooked out of JPW is mineral spirits. Why cook it off and then add it back?

[Hamish]

Apologies, forgot to say that when I do the bowl swirl I scoop a little up with a boolit and throw it in the bowl. Until facts say otherwise, it would seem that until the mix gets to hard to coat the boolits, the MS is kind of a non factor except for possibly how fast it evaps and the boolits become non sticky.

Rich

[Recluse]

Still sticky after 24 hours in 85-90 degrees. I guess I will coat with some mica. Any advice for next time?

Just heat up what you have, add more JPW to the overall mix. I test mine by taking a q-tip and dabbing a little of the melted concoction on a cookie sheet or on a couple of boolits headed for "recycling" back to the pot. Within an hour, give or take, it should be dry and not tacky.

When I was first messing around with this, I had to keep adding JPW to get rid of the tackiness.

Second eckspariment in progress:

1. Melt two and one half pounds RandyRat's beeswax.
2. Add one can of mixed JPW/LLA

Rich @(:^]#>:::

Already did this a bit over two years ago. I use it as a stick lube for my lubesizers, but have also given some to some folks to use in pan-lubing. They tell me they love it. *I* love it as a stick lube and it's about all I use when lubing my pistol caliber boolits. I have another lube I use for the high-velocity rifle calibers, but with the above mix, I'm hitting 2500fps easily with no leading in g/c'd .30 caliber boolits.

[Hamish]

Recluse, sounds like I may already have a finished product. I can't find the PM but someone way back referred to this as "Mellow Yellow" I believe. BTW, I have REALLY enjoyed your blog.

Has anyone done any "definitive" testing wether it makes a big "whoop" after the second coating of JPW/LLA, anyone? I have been doing three coats on the rifle boolits, "just because".

[Recluse]

Recluse, sounds like I may already have a finished product. I can't find the PM but someone way back referred to this as "Mellow Yellow" I believe. BTW, I have REALLY enjoyed your blog.

Has anyone done any "definitive" testing wether it makes a big "whoop" after the second coating of JPW/LLA, anyone? I have been doing three coats on the rifle boolits, "just because".

I referred to it as "Mellow Yellow" right after I mixed up the first batch--primarily because Randy's beeswax is a yellow-ish/golden color, and the song that goes "they call me mellow yellow" happened to be playing on the oldies station on the stereo out in the shop.

As far as the third coat of lube when tumble-lubing rifle boolits, it certainly doesn't hurt. Anything that can keep additional lube on for the duration of travel down a longer barrel at higher velocities is a good thing.

[C.F.Plinker]

I started out with a full can of JPW. The can and contents weighed 18.9oz, the can weighed 2.6 oz, therefore the JPW weighed 16.3oz. The height of the cold JPW was 2in above the level portion of the bottom of the can. I put the can in a saucepan of water to act as a double boiler and melted the JPW. The height increased to 2 1/8 inches as the JPW expanded due to the heat. After a half hour only a little of the solvents had evaporated so I poured the JPW into another saucepan so I could heat it up to a higher temperature. When melted the height in this pan was 1 1/2 inches. I could see a little water in the bottom of the pan so I kept the heat below LOW until it had boiled off. Then I gradually increased the heat to halfway between LOW and MED on my Walgreens' 1000 Watt hot plate. This was where it started smoking seriously. Like when you drop some candle wax on top of your melt for fluxing. I was doing this in the garage and had cleared the benchtop for over 18" in all directions. Good thing because after 20-30 minutes it flamed. Just like when you flux using candle wax. Put a cake pan on it to smother the flames. Took the cake pan off and it flamed again. I'm a slow learner so I did it twice more. Finally, I left the cake pan on for a half hour. When I came back and uncovered it, the JPW was still liquid and was 9/32 above the bottom of the pan. I poured it into a Pyrex measuring cup (used only in the garage) and there was 2 oz of liquid left. I poured this into the empty JPW can. After the measuring cup and contents had cooled, I chipped the JPW out of the cup and added it to the can. Weighing again, the remains of the JPW weighed 2.25 oz. Since there were 2 oz of liquid it looks like the density is just over 1.0

The MSDS indicates that the amount of solvents is about 80% of the weight of the JPW. This means that the paraffin and carnuba waxes should be about 3.25 ounces so it looks like I may have burned out some of these waxes. Next time I will mark a stick at about 3/8 inch and stop cooking before the level gets down to that point.

I'll save the now concentrated JPW for the next time I make a batch of 45/45/10.

[Longbow53]

Great Stuff Recluse!
A quick method here...take two scoops out of JPW can, heat can on hot plate. I used my casting thermometer to tell me the setting for 350 degrees, just layed it on hotplate. Heat for the 15-20 minutes, I used an old ruler measuered liquid in can at 1 1/8" went up 1 1/8" and marked it, then added almost 5 tubes of Lee Alox. Turned off heat and let is cool, added mineral spirits. Used A tuna can bent to A point and filled the empty LA bottels. Left the rest in the JPW can and closed it up! When I need more, heat the can and refill bottlesThis stuff works great, thanks for sharing! Pete

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

I shot my first batch of boolits today lubed with your mix Recluse.
Very pleased with ZERO leading in moderate 44 mag loads.
Now why does everyone say it takes long for the stuff to dry?
I followed your instructions to the "t" & after tumbling and spreading them out, it was dry in about 5 minutes.

[toddn84]

I read over most of the 18 pages but didnt see it. Would you recommend this lube when storing boolits for up to 2 years?

[Recluse]

Would you recommend this lube when storing boolits for up to 2 years?

I shot some boolits (TL358SWC) last night that I had cast, sized and lubed over three years ago. Results were the same as with any other boolit.

The blend dries well, is not affected by storage, and the boolits load and shoot just fine.

[Atakawow]

First off, thank you for a great write up.

Now, I've ran into a bit of a problem while making the mix. I didn't really measure the ingredients as I added them, just gave it the good ol "that looks about right." Also, I forgot the factor in that JPW will reduce when cooked. Anyways, I ended up with a final product that is as thick as peanut butter when cooled. Then, I re-cooked the mix with more added JPW, a lot more. This time, the final product thins out a bit. The consistency of it is now more like chocolate pudding, actually it is exactly identical to chocolate pudding with the color and all.

After applying a very minimal amount on my bullets, it leaves a very slightly golden color coating. Straight Alox will give it a strong dark brown coating.

It has been over 24 hours and my bullets still aren't completely dried. Did I mix too much of one ingredient? How about adding more MS to speed up the drying process?

[Mauser Rat]

Recluse,

Thanks for starting this great thread and for going through the steps instead of just saying "melt, mix and pour"! I agree with mold maker who asked why boil off all of the solvents in the JPW and then add them back in again later so I don't boil the JPW as long nor add as much new Mineral Spirits to arrive at the same 45/45/10 mix. Based on the great instructions you gave, I have mixed up a couple of batches and stumbled on something that others might like to try.

Instead of using a LOT of beeswax, I made up a batch of the 45/45/10 Alox/JPW/Mineral Spirits using half of a 16 oz can of JPW, two 4 oz bottles of Lee LA that I had from buying sizers, a shot or two of mineral spirits AND I threw in about 3 ounces of light yellow beeswax into the still hot mix at the end. I kept the heat on low and stirred until the 3 ounces of beeswax had completely melted and blended in before I bottled it up in several empty Lee Alox bottles.

This modified 45/45/10 + 3 oz beeswax mix resulted in a lube that is a fairly stiff solid at room temp and does not melt until between 150 and 175 degrees F.

1) It would work well in a lubesizer with the addition of the beeswax or

2) as a pan lube if desired. And,

3) when melted in the bottle in a pan of warm water for tumble lubing it is a little thicker than the straight 45/45/10 mixes that I had made without the beeswax. I used just what you and others have recommended to tumble lube the boolits - maybe the letter "M" squirted over 100 - 150 boolits and mixed in a plastic baggie that is reusable over and over again.

The great thing is that it dries enough to be handled without any stickiness in only 15 minutes without needing a heating source such as a heat gun. To minimize bulged cases, I use the tumble/size/tumble again/load sequence so that I can be loading in under an hour or so from the start of the first lube.

No smoking, no leading and no stickiness. Just a faint honey scent when firing instead of the old "dish soap" Alox scent. Just those few ounces of beeswax gives a lube that won't soften or get sticky on hot days (not that we get a lot of those up here), seems to eliminate leading from 800 fps to over 1200 fps and can be used in a lube sizer, pan lube and/or tumble lubed depending on your taste in lubing. I love to cast and I love to reload and shoot but lubing is something that I have to do so I can shoot - so the sooner and easier the lubing is accomplished the better for me BUT it has to do the job or the entire time has been wasted.

Thanks again for getting me started on this and getting me back out in the woods shooting sooner!

[HammerMTB]

Well, 18 pages was a long read!
First, thanks to Recluse for documenting the process of making 45/45/10
After a bit of scrounging, I came up with a can of JPW. Decided NOT to reduce the JPW (much, anyway) so melted it down. I used a coffee can over my gas grill. Yeah, it could catch fire, but it is in the BBQ, after all. I used my IR thermometer to monitor temp, and once it got to 180F, I pulled it off the heat. Poured in the LLA, which was microwaved to a liquid state. Put the mess back on the heat for just a bit while I stirred it all together. Took it off the heat, and when it was back down to 130F or so, added an OZ of MS. Poured all of it in some LLA bottles. I had boolits ready to lube, so started using it right away. Found I shoulda warmed the boolits, as dripping lube on them made the lube begin to harden right away. They seemed to lube up OK anyway.
The finished lube looks like chocolate pudding so I think the consistency is about right. It returns to a liquid with 45 sec in the microwave.
Bottom line, I sure do LOVE the way the boolits turn out! No more sticky brown mess when they are lubed! Now you can only tell they are lubed by touching them. Even then they are not sticky, they feel waxy. I haven't shot them yet, but assuming it is as reported, no more smoke will be a real plus, too.
Again, thanks Recluse, you da man!
Readers and lurkers, don't start a kitchen fire in your house melting flammables! Take it outside! And if you haven't tried this stuff, you really should. This is cool beans!

[malpaismike]

Hello the camp! First stab at making 45/45/10 went swimmingly. Nothing succeeds like success.
What follows is not original; I burgled it off a kaboy-kinda site. Made from shop scrap--doesn't everybody have hardware cloth laying around?--it took about 20 min to cobble together, allows virtually 360-deg drying and obviates wax paper hanging around.
Gotta admit new mix is friendlier in indoor loading room than std LLA. This screen hangs under my bench ready for whenever.
See ya round the campfire. mm

[stinkybriches]

well i made my first batch the other night. consistancy seemed right based on what ive read on here. so tonight i lubed up some 200 gn .452 tl wadcutters. tommorow ill give them a second coat. they dried in under 1 hour, i dont know how fast as i didnt check them before the hour. they arnt sticky. for fun i picked up a boolit i lubed with straight LLA and it was tacky. that bullet was lubed 6 months ago, and was dry and not sticky when it was still nice and cool in my loading room. i have high hopes there wont be any leading.

[DakotaElkSlayer]

Great thread, Recluse...thanks! Now if anyone is having problems finding Johnson's Paste Wax, go to your local Ace Hardware store. If it isn't on their shelf, ask them to special order it for you. The big Ace Hardware warehouse has it and most stores order from Ace central every week.

Jim