.45-70 on the quiet

[Longwood]

Read an article from Precision shooting about reduced capacity 45-70 cases. Turns out it did not lower SD over regular cases. I forget wgo makes the brass

What does SD stand for?

[Artful]

in his context (Standard of Deviation) is the calculated difference between highs and lows on average of a shot strilng.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_deviation

http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com...-shooters.html

other uses for SD are Sectional Density - mass ratio to area of projectile

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sectional_density

[Artful]

Read an article from Precision shooting about reduced capacity 45-70 cases. Turns out it did not lower SD over regular cases. I forget wgo makes the brass

My intention with the reduced case capacity was to be able to use less powder to push the boolit to the same overall velocity but have less gas vent out the front.

[Longwood]

in his context (Standard of Deviation) is the calculated difference between highs and lows on average of a shot strilng.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_deviation

http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com...-shooters.html

other uses for SD are Sectional Density - mass ratio to area of projectile

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sectional_density

Thanks for your time.
I can think of several other things SD could mean also.
It is so nice when people take a second or two and type out what they are talking about instead of expecting people to read their mind.

[NHlever]

Strictly from personal experience muzzle blast, partly a function of pressure, is also a consideration with unsupressed guns. A .45 Colt seems quieter shooting a 250 grain cast bullet at 1000 fps. than a .44 Mag does shooting a 240 grain cast bullet at the same velocity though it sometimes takes more powder, it does it at a lower pressure. For that matter, a .45 Colt lever gun wth a longer barrel would be a pretty quiet pig gun at those velocities.

[Artful]

Yep pressure and gas volume have a lot to do with sound signature. You want to get the bullet up to speed while in the barrel and have the powder all burned up and the pressure dropping to relative atmosphic or as close as possible by the time the bullet exits the muzzle.

[35remington]

FWIW, with Ed Harris's "the Load" of 13 grains of Red Dot I obtain 1120 fps with a Lee 405 grain bullet in my 22 inch barreled Marlin 45-70. I'd think you'd need around 11-12 grains Red Dot to get you in the vicinity, and the same or a little more of Unique, as Unique is a bit slower than Red Dot. 16 grains Unique gets 1260 fps.

Of course, these fast powders are sensitive to deeply seated bullets, and the deeper the bullet seats (for a given weight) the faster it will go. Substituting the Lee 405 grain hollowbase nets another 100 fps with the same powder charges due to this deeper seating.

[Potsy]

Well, I loaded a couple of 405HB's over 10grn. Unique yesterday. I only had 2 rounds and it was late and cloudy enough the chrony wouldn't register.
It was a bunch louder than I thought it would be, so I don't know how much hog hunting utility it will have; buuuut, it was a bunch quieter than my regular load for that rifle, with very little recoil. I think I'll load a few more and see where they shoot just because. Maybe my wife will need to fling 400 grains of WW in the back yard. Who knows?

[Artful]

You know I might take some paper and roll into a thick cylinder and insert to take up some capacity and try some reddot and see what that does. Interesting I never thought of using Red Dot in 45-70.

[btroj]

I would not try changing the capacity of the case. It really isn't an issue. Many powders work just fine in the big old 45-70 case.
I would be very afraid of using a roll of paper in the case to reduce velocity. If that paper ever gets into, but not out of, the barrel you can damage the rifle badly. Putting things like this into the case just seem like a bad idea to me.
You could try light loads and use a Dacron filler like many here have used. Personally, I use 2400 in my 45-70 with no filler and no problem. Trailboss is perfect for reduced loads as it will fill the space fine.

[adrians]

trailboss /// unique , pick you flavor i use both in my trapdoor(not in the same case offcourse) ,very pleasant to shoot
,the above posts suggest good powder charges ...

[old wanderer]

I have been playing a lot with my 300 Blackout (Whisper) and some heavy boolits. Waiting on a mold from NOE for a 247 Gr.

However this has focused my thoughts on my 45-70 in #1 Ruger that has been sitting in my safe since a Roosevelt Elk hunt 10 years ago. The barrel comes off easily and I could have it threaded for a silencer. At the low pressures the noise should be just the drop of the hammer.

I will look and see what kind of a can is available, as it takes almost 4 months to get the paperwork back.

I love tinkering with new projects, and some 500 Gr, boolits and a can for my old #1 would be fun. Will also have to search and see what is available in a FP mold for the 458.

Thanks for the thread and ideas.

[Potsy]

I think the ultimate for this project; purposefully built with hog killin' in mind, would probably be the old Frank Barnes .458x2" in a bolt gun (Ruger 77 seems right).
Short, heavy barrel, with a can (integral?), and a mount long enough to accomodate scope and night vision accessory in front of it.

As Dad always says; "Wish in one had......."

[725]

I love 10 grains of Unique, too. It's one of those things you just have to try for yourself.

[Doc Highwall]

If I remember correctly 10 grains of Unique with 457385 gave me 930 fps out of a 1884 rifle.

[NHlever]

I think the ultimate for this project; purposefully built with hog killin' in mind, would probably be the old Frank Barnes .458x2" in a bolt gun (Ruger 77 seems right).
Short, heavy barrel, with a can (integral?), and a mount long enough to accomodate scope and night vision accessory in front of it.

As Dad always says; "Wish in one had......."

When I worked at Ruger I suggested that they build a .450 Marlin guide gun on the M77MKII with an 18", or 20" barrel. They had all the tools except the chamber reamers, and headspace gages. The bolt face is a standard magnum, and the magazine was the only thing that needed to be fiddled with for slick feeding. I still think there are those who might prefer a bolt gun for this kind of thing, and it is a pretty easy conversion. Now the .450 seems to be pretty much dead, and that's too bad in a way because some of the things it made possible over the .45-70 as far as application goes were never realized. I really like the 45-70, but that big rim does get in the way as much on some applications as it improves things greatly in others.

Edit: The .458 American is basically the same as the .450 Marlin with a shorter belt which makes it possible to fit in other magnum chambers with much smaller bores......... not so good.

[Potsy]

Thought about the .450 Marlin but wasnt' real sure if it was a std. mag bolt face.
Outside of long term brass availability, don't know why it wouldn't work.

[1Shirt]

Trail boss works well. I have loaded 45-70 with it, and found it to be accurate to 50 yds with the 350 pb lee. However I have also loaded 2400 with charges under most all weight of blts up to 500gr. using min starting loads recommended in the old Lyman manuals. My pet load for 45-70 is a 435 Ohas FNPB over 26gr of 2400 with 1/2 gr dac filler (not a recommendation), in my #1 Ruger. It chrono's right at 1475 avg. It is accurate to 100 and will stay under 3", usually under 2".
1Shirt!

[Montana Ron]

I too gotta go with 10 gr. Unique.........everything likes this load perty well......have been shooting it in 45-70 with 457122 at 20-1 and hammers bunnies perfectly and is a true pleasure to shoot.............

[Longwood]

My shoulder is sore this morning.
I shot 60 rounds through the Hiwall yesterday, testing powders.
I decided 10 to 14 grains of Trailboss or 35 to 40 grains of W860 is the max I want to shoot.
The cans fly just fine with the lighter loads and they seem to shoot well enough for plinking.
My paper patched bullets from my homemade molds are working well also so,,, I be happy.
I have a old square can of unique but it is unopened and I hate to break the seal. Unique must be really popular here since I can't seem to find it.