Has anyone ever seen this happen to a case?

[gray wolf]

Stop knocking your head against a wall with this, It's the extractor.
I have seen it happen two times before. Not enough tension on the extractor.
The last round malfunction is the tip off. With a full mag the cases can rest on the rounds in the mag, This supports the round a little and helps to keep it in the proper position.
With week extractor tension the last round can drop down a little
( falls down against the empty mag ) this positions the case in a way that it can't extract correctly. The slide comes back, and the front of the case drops down , it does not extract but gets carried forward again and slams into the top of the barrel, and then bumps out of the pistol. most times the case will fall closer two the shooter than the other extracted rounds.
Open the slide, Take the case with the dings in them and I'll bet they fit right against the top of the barrel. Close the slide on it and you will see how the case got dented.
As the extractor tension gets worse or with a week round, the gun will lock up with the case stuck between the breech face and the top of the barrel.
Hope it helps.

Sam

[novalty]

Gray Wolf, I will try that that with the dented case. Two things that have me confused are:
1: The slide was locked back and these weren't stove-pipes.
2: I shot about 8 mags through my gun and it only damaged the case of the LSWC. It didn't damage the last round of factory Remington UMC 230gr FMJ's or rounds I loaded w/230gr Berry Plated loaded w/5.9gr of Unique.

My guess is if dirrectly related to extractor then the higher pressure/velocity from the 200gr LSWC with 7.0gr of Unique were causing the extractor failure ont he last round. I had tried loading the mag with just 1 round of the 200gr LSWC and it didn't damage the case. At this point just giving up on the LSWC rounds loaded with 7.0 gr. Unique.

[Iron Mike Golf]

S&W 1911 has an external extractor, right? What about the extractor spring?

[Ford SD]

I have seen this happen in 2 different guns

In a 1911 because of a weak extractor (replaced extractor) no tension

And in a CZ in 40 because of too tight tolerance on machined parts and if you were using several times fired mixed brass in 40S&W on the very odd one the brass rim was undersized only 0.005 and there was not enough tension to hold brass to extract and toss brass (it would even happen in the middle of a mag)

[lurch]

I've seen it too but I'm not sure why. I've got a P238 (brand new) that will do that if I hold it a little limp. Get a good firm grip and there are no issues. I have not shot the gun much though and wonder if it is just being a "new gun". It doesn't matter if the magazine is full, partially full or empty. When it happens the dinged case will still come out and the next round goes right in if it's there with no stoppage. The load is a MP 93 gr. hollow point and 3.1 grains of Bullseye in Starline brass with a CCI primer (don't quite recall OAL and my notes are not handy) or Speer Gold Dot factory fodder.

[MtGun44]

S&W 1911s have the non-Browning external extractor. S&W semi-autos have historically been
a bit unreliable on extractors, and there were three different extractor designs tried over
the decades with the M39/59 and all of their multitudinous progeny. I am personally
suspicious any time somebody has a need to fix something that isn't broken, like the
1911 extractor. Somehow that empty case is NOT taking the "normal route" out of the
gun. Extractor and ejector would be prime suspects.

Bill

[David2011]

The only thing I am not sure about is the external extractor. The lower portion of it doesn't appear to be square, as the corner of it seems to be slightly rounded. It doesn't appear to be broken or chipped as it doesn't have a sharp-irregular shaped edge--but I am not sure if this is the way the the extractor was machined.

They are a fairly inexpensive part and the chances are pretty good that you will eventually need one. If I had any doubt, I'd buy a spare and compare it to the one in the gun. If they don't match, go ahead and change it out. If they do, save it for when they don't anymore.

It is unlikey that a new extractor will match the shape of a properly fitted one. There should be a chamfer or relief on the bottom of the extractor where the case first contacts it. This is to make it easier for the case to slip up under the extractor. Fitting an extractor is not terribly difficult but does require patience and attention to the details. Proper fitting is crucial to the function of a 1911. There are a number of good references on the web.

David

[AZ-Stew]

Looks like an experimental shot load with a two-point crimp.

Regards,

Stew

[gray wolf]

External extractors should not require that much fitting, if any.
For internal extractors, most come about 98% Pre prepped, I have replaced many and all they needed was a little tension adjustment.
As for the ejector, if it's in one piece and not chipped or loose it's probably OK.

[Matt_G]

FYI, in looking at your pic of the loaded round, that boolit does NOT look like a 452460 to me. The junction of the nose and front driving band is too radiused. The 452460 has a very sharp transition in that area.

That boolit looks like a 452488 to me. (Lyman's copy of the H&G 130)
FWIW, the OAL for the 452488 is even shorter than the 452460 @ 1.120
Max load is still the same as the 452460 at 7.5 grains of Unique per the 2nd edition of Lyman's Pistol and Revolver Handbook.

452488 (195 grains roughly)
1.120 OAL
CCI 300 primer
7.5 grains Unique (Max load)
1010 f.p.s.
16,800 c.u.p.

[novalty]

S&W 1911s have the non-Browning external extractor. S&W semi-autos have historically been a bit unreliable on extractors, and there were three different extractor designs tried over the decades with the M39/59 and all of their multitudinous progeny. I am personally suspicious any time somebody has a need to fix something that isn't broken, like the 1911 extractor. Somehow that empty case is NOT taking the "normal route" out of the gun. Extractor and ejector would be prime suspects.

Bill

Being a S&W semi-auto fan, and owned/shot several have never had an extractor issue with 59 or 45 series. I know 1911 purists are against S&W's 1911 external extractor, but they have a good track record for reliability--unlike...Kimber's attempt. I managed to find a posted picture of an unused S&W 1911 external extractor and the one in mine looks the same. Not ruling out that the issue I am experiencing is extractor related, but hate to read a blanked statement about S&W semi-autos having extractor issues.

[casterofboolits]

I have seen this problem in several stock 1911's. Sometimes the case is bouncing bck into the slide due to hitting the bottom of the ejection port. One of the modificatrions I do to my 1911's is to lower and bevel the ejection port. Look for brass deposits on the ejection port lip. Too long ejectors can cause the same problem if the gun is not timed correctly.

I cut the nose of My Combat commander ejectors down about half of the extension length.

So, three things to check:

1. Extractor correctly fitted.

2. Ejector length

3. Ejection port hieght and bevel.

Good luck.

[Iron Mike Golf]

FYI, in looking at your pic of the loaded round, that boolit does NOT look like a 452460 to me. The junction of the nose and front driving band is too radiused. The 452460 has a very sharp transition in that area.

I think maybe the design of the 452460 has changed over time. Mine is a used one, age unknown, and has a sharp transistion as you describe. The current diagram on the Lyman site shows the radiused transition. 452460 details

Jeff

[sqlbullet]

I had not seen this when you first posted.

Then I went shooting this weekend, round 2 with my 10mm conversion of a Para 16-40.



I will check my extractor tension.

[MtGun44]

novalty,

Sorry that you hate to read about S&W extractor problems, but S&W redesigned
their SemiAuto extractors twice, so there are three generations of extractors. It is because they
were getting steady flow of extractor problems over the years. If your's didn't malfunction,
that is good, doesn't make all of them reliable.

Bill