No gc molds for 452 hp?

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

Groove diameter is .451", AC WW's sized to .452" (sorry, but I don't know what kind of car they came off), 50/50 Lars carnaube red and BAC blend lube, 11.6 grains Hodgdon longshot, COL was 1.250", Rounds were fired at the following GPS coordinates: 38*59'15.99N, 89*57'56.51W, Elevation was 599 feet, Temperature was 34*F, Humidity was 81%, Pressure was 30.42 mm HG, Visibility was 10 miles. I shot the first 10 rounds from the resting position right handed. The next ten shots were off hand with my left hand. I guess I was a little vague with the information I put in the previous post. Sorry!

[Okie2]

Too funny...have a good holiday!

[MtGun44]

OK, CoyoteHunter,

THAT is a thorough report.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume the lat/long are not key to the problem.
What boolit design? All I saw was 'smaller meplat plain base'.

First, I would go about .001 larger diameter, and then I would change the lube to
LBT blue or 50-50 NRA formula, if you have them.

So we have two leading cases here, it would seem.

Did I miss it, did Oakie post info on the boolit design you are using?

I'm wondering about lube quantity, and general design issues in both cases. Not all boolits
are equally well designed.

I have tested 8 BHN Keith .44s against WD WWs (much harder) and found no difference in my
S&Ws that I was testing in. No leading in either case, loads were heavy 2400 and H110,
I'd have to go back and check the records to be sure exactly which. The point was that I
saw no difference in very soft and very hard non-GC boolits at near max .44 mag pressures
and velocities. Accy was good and no leading with either.

I am NOT saying that harder boolits will not work, or may not solve some particular problem
in some particular gun. But, I have had situations where TOO hard and undersized CAUSED
the leading and inaccuracy. I have fixed multiple problems with softer and very often
with larger boolits. Larger is very often the fix for many leading and accy issues.

I have experience that shows that soft boolits of a good design with a good lube in a
good pistol can work just fine and match the results of hard versions of the same boolit.

I will not say that any particular 'fix' always works or never works, because guns are pretty
often a thing unto themselves.

I also have to come down with the perfessor on not melting boolit bases because the time
seems way too short. I think that there can be gas cutting which removes lead from the sides
of undersized boolits but this would seem to be more of a mechanical effect than a melting.
Gas cuts top straps with mechanical erosion due to high velocity particles in the gases.

Bill

[Bass Ackward]

I have two S&W 625s that are opposite examples of cast bullet theory.

One leads. No matter what you do. Soft or hard, big or small, good lube or bad or both. It just leads with PB.

The other one shoots soft or hard, big or small, good lube or bad and never leads ANYWHERE. This gun actually prefers bore diameter PB and it has the biggest throats!

These are the same shells in both.

Funny thing is, that they are both superbly accurate when you swallow your pride and get passed the leading and do what the gun wants so that it can produce the target you want.

My points are: that you can do everything possible to avoid leading and still get it in some guns. Some guns, just won't shoot with the techniques that stop leading. So what good is that?

Leading is NOT always bad. If you get leading, you need to work up the load AFTER the bore condition stabilizes. In this case, I use soft lead to lead up quick (few shells) and then rock hard to position the leading and shoot well. Both guns actually shoots best with bore diameter slugs. They just take different roads to get there.

Then just hope you never have to clean. Or .... bite the bullet and use a GC.

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

MtGun44,

I am using the Group buy mold from MP molds (Miha) that drops a 200 grain .453" HP's (the one with round or pentagonal hp pins) from a brass mold http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...93&postcount=4 ). The lube groove is rather generous, so I don't think that is an issue. One other thing I may want to consider is firelapping the barrel. This is a brand new barrel from Clark Custom. BUT, since the mold drops them at 453 and I size yo 452, i will try shooting them , .002 over groove diameter. After all, this is what I have to do for 9mm. I will try shooting them .002 over, air dropped...and if that proves no success then i will try hardening them a bit and shooting them .002 over. Thanks for all the help and information guys!!!!!

[44man]

I guess I will throw in my 2 cents on leading a barrel. I have read alot about casting lead bullets,their affects on barrels and targets/game. Most people feel like making them harder or bigger in diameter will negate the affect of leading. I feel the real issue is how hot you powder burns behind the bullet when fired through the gun and what kind of lube you use. I don't remember where I saw it but I remember the meat of the article. It was the faster you push any bullet the hotter the gases are behind said bullet. When this happens you are melting a tiny amount of the lead on the base of the bullet (and part of the lube witch acts as a gas seal of sorts) it will build up in the chamber throats and in the barrel. The next bullet behind it just smears in onto the bore and throats. There is no free lunch. Softer bullets (lead vs jacketed ones) are gonna leave residue behind in the gun when fired. Some more than others. There are things that can be done to slow it down but it will happen sooner or later in any gun that I have ever messed with anyway. Do not get me wrong I love shooting lead but when it is time to put meat on the table I am shooting commercial jacketed bullets. This again is just my opnion on the matter.

This is not true, you will NOT melt lead. What happens is that if a soft boolit skids the rifling too much and opens the boolit at the last base band, gas can squirt past the boolit. That force can erode lead from the boolit.
I have shot 50-50 PB boolits near 1700 fps with zero leading but only my accuracy suffered. A gas check brought accuracy in line with harder boolits.
Sometimes soft does not mean leading yet an air cooled WW boolit can lead more then a water dropped or even a softer boolit.
Lube does NOT seal gas.
None of my revolvers have been cleaned in a year and I will not get any lead from them. Accuracy does not change, EVER, for me.
The gas check helps stop boolit skid and aids rifling grip but if you have a boolit too soft that will not start to apply grip to the rifling, you will exceed the check, still skid and open gas channels. You can lead a bore with gas checked boolits as easy as a soft PB.
No powder heat will melt a boolit base because it is applied for too short a duration. PRESSURE at the base is another thing and is what causes leading. Slump, skid and leakage is what needs cured.