compressing black powder

[bigted]

ok so i set myself up with an extra flairing die i had laying around and machined it shorter in the body to allow the flairing button to compress the powder by .600 from the mouth of the case. i also trimmed the flair off the button [[ that is some HARD steel on these buttons]].

question is this...i started to compress 70gr of geox 2f in my remington cases. this is easily done but as i started to compress the second one i reconsidered the amount of preassure that is needed to compress this powder. HOW MUCH COMPRESSION WILL BLACKPOWDER WITHSTAND BEFORE IT EXPLODES???

i stopped my loading enterprise till i get an answer to this question. i started to sweat as i considered the possibilitys of all the powder and other explosives i store in my little world of big boy toys. i can see losing the loading room and a portion of the house but the firearms in that room are more precious then gold to me.

thanks for the answers to possibly a stupid question.

ted

[Tom-ADC]

Ted why are you compressing the powder .600 that's almost 5/8"? How did you arrive at that figure?
What rifle and what bullet are you using?

[bigted]

tom,,,didnt say i was compressing it the whole .600 inch. just saying that i machined the die/button to have the ability to compress this amount. i am compressing 70gr about .350 to seat my 457125 500gr to the depth i want it to be.

just wandering how much preassure the bp will withstand is all. ive shot a trainload of muzzleloaders and it never occured to me but i wasnt and dont compress it with a loading lever of an rcbs rockchucker either.

again the .600 meassurment is what i machined my compressor to have the ability to compress. also while we are here...what is or could be the problem with the .600 inch of compression? just asking !

[John Boy]

HOW MUCH COMPRESSION WILL BLACKPOWDER WITHSTAND BEFORE IT EXPLODES???

Ted, best way to find out is take a small amount, secure it between 2 steel plates, put a 20 or 30 ton jack under it and start pumping. Might want to do it against a floor beam of your house. Let us all know how high you raise the house and the powder still hasn't exploded

[bigted]

thanks john. i prolly wont go lifting my house but i preciate the info. i just got a small bit wary overthinking this compression thing. back to the bench and if ya see a puff of smoke up north...itl be me scraping my hide up and trying something else new...lol

[Tom-ADC]

BigTed now I understand!! I shoot 68 grs in my sharps I use a .062 veggie wad and compress .250 so don't see where you'd have a problem. I switched to Swiss 1.5 Fg and only compress it .200 total.
Just didn't read the 1st post correctly must have had a senior moment.

[montana_charlie]

Guys have compressed powder so much that it swelled the case it was in.
The case had to be run into a resizing die to get it back down to a dimension that could be chambered in the rifle.

CM

[saz]

Turning down the expansion plug- why didnt I think of that. I have a spare, and that would have wroked pretty slick. Good thinking!

[bigted]

well saz...when you get to the turning...prepare for a battle. those rcbs plugs are very hard...dont know whether they hardened em or just used the hardest darn steel to make em outta.

i loaded the first five up with 70gr geox 2f and compressed em enough to seat my 500gr lyman to the last driving band. prolly compressed around .350 after i dribbled in the powder. it came to within 1/4 inch of the top of the case [rem.]. took em out and shot em thru my winny 85 hiwall. now dont know how accurat these will be ... but i CAN say how much FUN they are. my first try with bp was a disaster but these are fun and the smell and sound is incredible. raising the grains from 59.3gr to the 70gr was the ticket. still have sparks out front but the rifle stays pretty clean inside and i find that i can keep shooting all 5 rather then the sticking half in the chamber like the lightloaded shells were.

havnt tryed the overpowder cards yet nor the veggiwads either but now i cant wait to shoot more. these are a hoot and i can only imagine taking big game with these loads. cleanup was a snap using only tc's borebutter. i soaked a patch with it and ran it thru the bore several times to soften up the crud and then after 3 dry patches i ran another borebutter patch thru and clean ones till they were clean coming out...clean shiny bore and the chamber is clean as well. i then sprayed the action with rem oil and wipe all surfaces i can get at. lastly i spray the entire gun down litely with the rem oil and wipe down...[ was raining today]...clean AND shiney.......WHAT FUN...no scrubbing to get the horrible green copper out and the greese coming out the end of the barrel tells me the lube i cooked up is working afterall.

thanks to all who gave friendly advise along my painfull way...the end here is definetly justified by the end. hope i can muster the desire to keep loading for my smokeless rifles now. i prolly wont ever be a bench shooter nor looooongrange shooter but breaking rocks and hunting...you bet. cant wait till next fall for some moose n bear stew made possible with the blackpowder filled cases behind these homemade cast boolits covered with my own brewed lube and rolled with these knarled ol hands. yee haa ... see an ol coot CAN learn new stuff !!!

[bigted]

im still curious as to the lbs per square inch it takes to make bp explode. not that i will ever go there but you know how it is when a question pops into a brain and refuses to go away. just sayin ya know??

certainly someone here knows the answer to this question.

im not interested enough i recon to go searchin it out for myself...what does that say for myself??

ok ok ill go look...it just didnt sound rite when i re-read the confession and it bothers me to see this small quirk about myself.

more news at 11 so to speak.

[Doc Highwall]

bigted, I have read that people have compressed black powder just over .350" from the height of the drop tube dimension. Remember your compression consistently depends on you drop tube consistently. The speed of pouring the powder into the funnel of your drop tube will affect the height of the powder before you compress and is very important to consistent ES of your loads.

[John Boy]

im not interested enough i recon to go searchin it out for myself...what does that say for myself??

I would recommend you do just that and start here ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explosive_material
You should be worrying about how to make reloads that shoot infinitely small groups instead of a subject that I have never seen discussed in all my readings about original gunpowder, plus others really don't care about, including myself

Your question is in the league of a fella who once asked:
I need a loading data that is 3.5grs and my powder charger only throws a 4 gr charge. How do I cut the grains in half to get 3.5 grains?

[bigted]

I would recommend you do just that and start here ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explosive_material
You should be worrying about how to make reloads that shoot infinitely small groups instead of a subject that I have never seen discussed in all my readings about original gunpowder, plus others really don't care about, including myself

Your question is in the league of a fella who once asked:
I need a loading data that is 3.5grs and my powder charger only throws a 4 gr charge. How do I cut the grains in half to get 3.5 grains?

nough said!

[Dan Cash]

Ted,
I don't think you can compress BP enough to explode it. Extreme, violent friction will make it go but you will never achieve that with a loading press. FWIW, I have placed some BP on an anvil and hit it with a bronze hammer. Nothing. Do the same with smokeless and the nitro in the propellant will go off with a nice pop.

[bigted]

cool dan...thanks for the tip. its just a crazy question that ran thru and i tryed to search it out but came up with nodda. guess if it were a prolem it would be addressed here and other places on the net.

[Savvy Jack]

Guys have compressed powder so much that it swelled the case it was in.
The case had to be run into a resizing die to get it back down to a dimension that could be chambered in the rifle.

CM

Was that with or without the powder inside?

[montana_charlie]

Was that with or without the powder inside?

The cases are resized with the powder charge in position.
You have to take the depriming pin out of the die.
CM

[bigted]

lol...ive done that little trick myself but never thought id admit to it. i got heavy with the crimp on some bp loads for my marlin and didnt want to pull em so i removed the de-priming pin and shoved them up into my 45-120 size die and that took enough of the bulg out to chamber them. felt a little on the edge doing it but im still breathing and with all my extra parts still in the same position they were in when i was born so... still prolly not the smartest thing i ever did

[montana_charlie]

It's a common fix for a swelled case. I see no hazard at all.
CM

[herbert buckland]

It's a common fix for a swelled case. I see no hazard at all.
CM

I allso youse this method as a quick crimp for heeled bullets