Shooting cast at 2700+ fps

[-06]

........"Why are you shooting at game at 400 yards?"....... I normally shoot at far less but have accurately hit at 380. He went about five feet before dropping. I used to fire comp. and enjoy open field hunting. I do hunt at close distances and with my trusty old Browning-slug barrel. If you can shoot at 100 accurately then you can hit at farther distances with practice and concentration. If you cannot hit at 100 then please don't try longer shots. I raised a fawn to a fantastic pet and hate to see a deer wounded.

[waksupi]

Well, I've killed deer and antelope at well under a hundred with flintlocks and pistols. Suggest you learn to hunt, rather than just shoot. I've got 40 years of competition shooting behind me, with a lot of 1000 yard work. That is why I don't shoot at game over 200 yards.

[-06]

Waksup, sir I will have you know that I have never wounded a deer. Every one that I have ever shot died very quickly from primarily heart/lung shots. As for shooting instead of hunting--I killed my first deer nearly forty years ago and have taken some every winter since. As for shooting-I will stack my aim up with yours any day of the week. I really do not appreciate your remarks-not knowing anything about me. It is childish and irresponsible to assume things about others based on your experiences. Shoot at whatever range you wish and keep your remarks about mine to yourself please. ----IF---- you have shot comp. at 1000 yds then your experience should dictate that a 3-400 yd shot is not much more than a "chip shot". If a decent shot cannot hit an 18"X18" target at 3-400 yds then he should not be shooting.
I thought this site was above snide remarks but I guess there is the exception to every assumption. My apologies to the rest.

[waksupi]

Can't think of any animals around here with a 18X18 kill zone.

Not being snide, supporting responsible hunting.

[-06]

Sorry I lost my "cool". I started the thread with a question about firing cast at factory speeds and it has gotten a bit of thread drift. Am reminded of an old Clint Eastwood movie--he said: "A man has to know his limitations".

[dualsport]

This was a project I haven't had the chance to get back to yet. Last year I decided to make some Lee "Soup Can" bullets from Lino and push them to a velocity beyond what I had in the past.

Discounting the fouling shot the group was better than I expected....and from a levergun at that. I need to load up some more and try them at 100 yards. I'll have to add that to the 2011 project list ..............



w30wcf

Nice shootin'. I like that kind of stuff, a little 'outside the box'. I'm preparing a batch of Lyman 311359s for some upper end experiments, 30-30 and 7.62x39 for a comparison. I want to see if my 7.62x39 H&R barrel is redundant. I've had a H&R 30-30 for about 25 yrs. Shoots cbs real good. I also have that soup can mold, maybe I'll throw that one in too. Looks like it worked good for you. My 94 has shown amazing accuracy with cbs and mild Bullseye loads.

[Marlin Junky]

Back to this velocity thing for a minute... your results down range are going to depend on how the system of components performs. Extracting the absolute maximum from this system requires understanding it. If you're not a dedicated lead boolit guy, forget about approaching jacketed bullet performance with your '06. If you want to use lead boolits in your '06 for practice or small game or perhaps some pest control then by all means, get involved. If you want to substitute your cast boolit ammo for your factory ammo and go hunting out west you had better plan on spending a few hours a week at the range for several months or more and this assumes you're already an experience handloader.

For example, I've had several 336's in 30WCF go through my hands but only one that will shoot heat treated 180 grain boolits consistently into 1.5MOA or less at 2400 fps (I won't provide the recipe because this particular rifle has an unusual chamber). With a properly annealed nose, these boolits perform in water soaked telephone books similar to the venerable old Nosler. I consider this one individual load, in this one particular rifle, to be the near equivalent of a .300 Savage factory load and would use it on elk under favorable conditions. Currently I am working on an old M70 in 30-06, intently trying to extract all the cast boolit usefulness out of it. After several months of collecting data, I do not ever expect to match the performance of the above mentioned 30-30 without first replacing the factory barrel with something like a Kreiger or perhaps a Shilen (i.e., barrel guts are a very important part of the system). One day I will probably shoot a 5-shot one hole group with this rifle at 100 yards but it will be at a whole lot less than 2700 fps. Why? Probably because of the chamber reamer dimensions that cut this particular '06 chamber and the 10" twist coupled with the way the rifling was cut... actually, I think Winchester was button rifling at the time this M70 was manufactured (circa '52). With all that being said, given a substantial investment in a new barrel, proper reamer, custom mold to fit and perhaps some new loading dies and a batch of Lapua cases, I bet 1MOA at 2700 fps with 170-180 grain boolits (HT'd 50/50 or thereabouts) would be a snap.

Does that help?

MJ

[Bret4207]

Can't think of any animals around here with a 18X18 kill zone.

Not being snide, supporting responsible hunting.

Ditto. Good on you Ric.

[-06]

My hat is off to you Marlin. That is some fine well tuned shooting. My eyes are far from what they used to be so I have glass on everything except an M1A and a Carbine(and an FR-8). I am zeroed at 220 yds so firing at 1 to 300 is simple math and relatively easy.
I worked for a gent once who was bragging about his deer shot(@50yds). I encouraged him to not limit his shots at such short distances and he said it was impossible to hit at the end of his pasture(where he had shot the other up close). I took my old '03 out and commenced to blowing up cow patties at about 175 yds. One has to know his equipment and be proficient with it. Without either the other suffers.
Heard an old creed many yrs ago: without my rifle I am useless, without me my rifle is useless. I will kill my enemy before he kills me. It made a good impression on a young Jarhead.

[dualsport]

This thread has gone sideways a little. High velocity cb shooting for grins is one thing, hunting is another. The 'how far is too far' question will never be answered, because the answer is different for everybody. There's guys, and gals, who can shoot past 400 yds. at game and be ethical. That's because they have made the effort to have that proficiency and can hit a paper plate all day at 500 under field conditions. I've seen it many times. But that's not my cup of tea, I like the stalk, it's the hunt for me. Getting close is the fun part, to me. I hunted for years with a recurve bow or a compound with no sights, instinctive shooting. That gave me a reliable range of 25 yds! It was great and led me to the most memorable hunts in my life. One time I stalked a buck for two days! Finally outsmarted him in an ambush that involved a lot of running and mountain climbing. I danced around the fire that night like Kevin Costner in 'Dances With Wolves'. If I had just pulled off a great technological feat of long range marksmanship I probably wouldn't have danced. That said, long range shooting is fun, just not at game for me.

[Von Gruff]

I would and do consider 250yds a max distance with my aperture sighted 7x57 with soft nose at 2415fps and prefer to be under 200 with 150 being çomfortable in the terrain I hunt. There are too many variables in the alloy - velocity - trajectory - expansion choice to reliably work outside this range (and dont bring up the old time buff shooters) This was the generally excepted working range with traditional J/bullets as well as CB, UNTILL velocity started to become the over riding criteria of effectiveness and J/bullet design had to move away from the c&c that had always worked.
I think we, as CB hunters work best within the limitations that have always shown the best results, and while some SHOOTERS may take shots 'way out there', HUNTERS will not.

Leaving hunting asside, shooting CB at HV as an intelectual or practical exercise that may bring its own rewards as far as satisfaction in acomplishing a task, but the more easily attained 2400fps will more than suffice for long range paper or steel.

Von Gruff.

[Marlin Junky]

And, like Felix said a few days ago, there's the paper jacket. With a little patience you can apply a sheet of paper to a pointed cylinder of air cooled WW metal and do 1 to 1.5 MOA at 2500 fps without breaking into a sweat. I've done it with a rifle that wouldn't shoot my particular lubed/grooved boolits accurately at over 1900 fps.

MJ

[dualsport]

VG, I agree a 7x57 and a .404 will do whatever you Need done, but what does 'need' have to do with it? If you add .22 Hornet to that list I'll leave you alone and be happy.

[Daryl]

I got Veral Smith's book "Jacketed Peformance with Cast Bullets" and found it to be extremely helpful. What I like about it is that he is very practical and speaks from experience on the terminal result of the bullets in hunting situations.

I've read sections of this book many times and gain more insight each time and pick up on stuff I missed before.

I've been experimenting with a 22 gas checked Lyman 55 grainer. I did not chrono it, but based on the load, I estimate it to be 2800 fps +/-. I am not the best shooter, from a 2x4 rest at 100 yds in my Remington 700 heavy barrel I had a 5-shot group of under 1.5". The best 3 were 1/2". I use Veral's LBT Blue lube. This was with RL-7.

The lower velocity of 2,100 fps or so with Unique was certainly easier to maintain 1 MOA.

I also fire-lapped the new barrel before these stats were developed.

The note above about the brittle nature with hard alloys was also an issue Veral discussed. At under $30 this book was my best investment after a couple years of casting experience.

I encourage you to try it.