30/06 cast ?

[Railbuggy]

Just bought a LEE C309-160-R mound to start loading for a Ruger M77 in 30/06.
My boolits are droping at 151 and 152 grain,and .311 dia.( WW with solder added)
Do I need to size them to308 or309?
I have been casting 45s for my 1911 and my 45 colt Blackhawk since 2004,but this is my first try on bottleneck rounds.
I just broke a deprimer pin SE2277 on a berden case,so I need to order some stuff
anyway.
Thanks-I don't post much but I visit daily.
Railbuggy

[Maven]

Railbuggy, You're going to use those CB's with gas checks, right? If so, you'll want to purchase a Lyman .30cal. "M" die to expand and [slightly] bell the case mouths so that you can seat CB's, gas checks or not, without damaging them. As for which diameter to size them to, You should slug your bore first and then add .001", possibly .002" to that dimension and selelct a sizing die accordingly. However, I'd try .311" first with a starting load of 13 grs. Red Dot or 16 grs. 2400 as you don't have to buy anything extra except maybe bullet lube. Lee's Liquid Alox or Lar's Xlox* work well for this application.


*sales@LsStuff.com

[FAsmus]

Railbuggy;


You ask: My bullets are dropping at 151 and 152 grain,and .311 dia. ( WW with solder added) Do I need to size them to308 or309?

Me; This is unlikely.

First off you need to determine the internal dimensions of your barrel. There are various ways to do this, just go looking here on the site and you'll soon find the method that suits your situation.

However, in general, bullets around 0.311 are not really outa-hand for loading as-cast into a 30'06. You might find a load that would work just fine with such a large bullet. I, for example, have loaded for 40 years with nothing more than a single 0.3105 die - I size them all the same and work out loads that accommodate the bullets as they come from the sizer.

On the other hand, you will have to lube the bullets and crimp on GCs. Chose a die around 0.310 to start - you won't go far wrong there.

Good evening,
Forrest

[HangFireW8]

Just bought a LEE C309-160-R mound to start loading for a Ruger M77 in 30/06.
My boolits are droping at 151 and 152 grain,and .311 dia.( WW with solder added)
Do I need to size them to308 or309?

Grease one up, push it base first into the muzzle and then push it out with a cleaning rod. Measure it and tell us the results.

You can size to bore (larger) diameter, or 1 thousandths larger with no problem, or even larger if you have nice tapered rifling in the throat and the case neck fits with enough space to open up and release the boolit (at least one thousandths).

The best way to measure that is to load up some boolits two thousandths larger than you plan to shoot, into your thickest neck brass, if they chamber and eject easily, you are good to go.

-HF

[Tom W.]

That same boolit shoots remarkably well from my '06, sized to .309.

[geargnasher]

Hangfire mentioned what I was going to. You need to get both an accurate groove dimension and a chdmber neck dimension. Search here for "impact slug" and 45 2.1 as a member handle, Bob has explained how to do this several times in the past. When you get an accurate chamber neck dimension, check your finished loaded brass neck dimension against it, as was said at least .001" total diameter difference is needed for the case neck to expand and realease the boolit. Usually chamber necks are generous, allowing for even thick military brass with .309" or larger boolits to be chambered and fired safely, but you should check yours to make sure. Keep in mind most factory '06 brass has necks in the .011-13" thickness range and was designed for .308" bullets. If you stuff a .311" in there it may be to tight. You want to be over groove size by at least a thousandth in most cases, sometimes (but rarely) sizing to groove size gets best results, it depends on the particular combination of components and how fast you're trying to go with accuracy.

Gear

[Railbuggy]

I put away my Harbor Fright caliper and got out my Brown and Sharpe Micrometer.
I sluged my muzzle and got a reading of about.30925.
My Boolits are droping from my mould at about .31050 on the bands.
From my limited knowlage I don't think I'll have to run them thru a sizer.
I got the Lee Pace setter die set-part#90508 which doesen't seem to open the case mouth up enuf to let the boolit enter without shaving lead.
My guess is that I need to order the Lyman M die,or something like it to open the case mouth more.
COPD keeps me out of the woods but I still like the smell of burnt powder.

[timkelley]

That boolit, cast from w/w, sized .309, and tumble lubed ALOX/JPW, goes thru my M77 very well up to now. I've only recently started fooling with them but they seem to work well with no gascheck as low speed plinkers and then with a gascheck and the speed turned up.

[Railbuggy]

Thanks Tim.I forgot to add that I don't plan to use gas checks at this time.
I plan on target shooting and plinking at about 100 yards useing unique or red dot powder.

[Blammer]

I'd size them to .311 or .310 and see how they go.

the recommendation for the lyman LONG M die in 30 cal is a good one.

[geargnasher]

If not using checks and with fast pistol powders, use a grain of Dacron fluffed to occupy the space between the boolit base and powder. This will keep the powder against the primer hole (not essential, but it helps) and seems to help seal the bore (obturate) behind the boolit, preventing leading and upping the velocity and pressure a small amount. I've found it helps accuracy and leading with loads such as you propose.

Gear

[looseprojectile]

Seeing as how you are shooting a boltgun try seating an as cast boolit in a fired case. You might not have to size your cases at all. Try to get the boolit to fit a fired case. There are several ways to cast larger boolits with the gear you already have. I always try to not crimp loads for bolt guns. You can expand a sized case with an expander from a .303 br. or 7.65 arg. or 7.7 jap. die to make them more cast boolit friendly. Chamfer the case mouths.
Fireformed cases are what work best.
I look for odd dies at gunshows. Friends are good to borrow dies from also.
With loads of fast pistol powder you ought to be able to load em a dozen times or more without sizing.

Life is good

[FAsmus]

Railbuggy;

You say;

I got the Lee Pace setter die set-part#90508 which doesn't seem to open the case mouth up enough to let the bullet enter without shaving lead.
My guess is that I need to order the Lyman M die,or something like it to open the case mouth more.

Me;

The Lyman "M" tool will work, sure, but consider my method for a second; If I need to bell or slightly expand the case neck opening to seat the lead bullet all I've ever done is take a simple tapered punch such as you can get at Ace any day of the week for $4.00 or so and, just before charging the case with powder, press the taper into the case just enough to do the job. This is a simple, easily done procedure and does not involve an additional press operation.

Good morning,
Forrest

[Railbuggy]

Thanks FAsmus,I have some flaring tools someware.I use to do HVAC/R work
as a maintenance tec when I had to.I have a flaring block and assorted swaging
tools in the basement somewhere.Ah,found a center punch with a long taper.
I put the center punch in one of my primered cases and smacked it a few times with my mould smacking stick.Charged case with 9grs of unique,seated boolit
to 2.911 OAL with Lee factory crimp die.Looks good to go.I might test fire this rd in my basement after my stepsone gets here today.;
PS: everyone is out of the 30 long M Die at this time.Glad I diden't need it.

[skeet1]

In my 03A3 I size mine to .311 using the Lee 312-185. and it shoots well. I would try it as is and see. You might try and fit one by hand in a case fired in your gun to see if there is clearance in your chamber for one this size. If there is it should work ok. As Marven said try 13.0 gr. of Red Dot and see how that works. I use 14.0 gr. of International Clays in mine and it works well.

Skeet1

[Echo]

I put away my Harbor Fright caliper and got out my Brown and Sharpe Micrometer.
I sluged my muzzle and got a reading of about.30925.
My Boolits are droping from my mould at about .31050 on the bands.
From my limited knowlage I don't think I'll have to run them thru a sizer.
I got the Lee Pace setter die set-part#90508 which doesen't seem to open the case mouth up enuf to let the boolit enter without shaving lead.
My guess is that I need to order the Lyman M die,or something like it to open the case mouth more.
COPD keeps me out of the woods but I still like the smell of burnt powder.

Until such time as you get your M-die, use needle-nose pliers - stick them in the neck, give a twist (or 2) until the neck is open enough to allow a boolit to start. has worked for me, in the past.

[Railbuggy]

OK. I loaded up a .310/.311 cast boolit into a case with 9 grains of unique.
Fireded it and took a reading inside the case neck.ID of the neck reads .310
to .311 pushing a little.
I can insert my as cast unsized boolits into the fired case mouth with little effert
and the will stay put until crimped.
I got the LEE Challenger Kit in 45acp for $65 back in 2004.
I,m putting togather a list now of what I will order tomorrow or friday.
(1)LEE classic turret press
(2)Extra 4-Hole head
(3)SE2277 decapper pin for my 30/06 FL sizing/depriming die
(4)Universal Depriming/Decapping die
(5) extra pin for above die
It looks like FactorySales has the best all around prices.
I have ordered from F&M Reloading in Hamilton,Ohio and bought from
then at the local Funshows for the last 12 years. They have limited supply on hand.
Thanks for the help.I plan to loadup 40 rds using 14 grains of Unique to take
to my shooting place. No GC will be used as I should be right around 1800 fps.
Mouse trap just went off-I went to the kitchen and there was a black kitten
looking at me.Rain just blew thru cincinnati and I had the front door open.
I set some food out for it.

[x101airborne]

I use my .311 expander button from my 7.62x39 dies to neck size my brass for my .308 win. Works magically and I do not size my bullets when I lube. It gives me a loose fit, but really good accuracy, even if it is overworking my brass. I use this setup when loading for my 7.62, 308, 30-06, and 300 win mag with the same bullet of 180 grs.

[tactikel]

I have the exact same mold; sized them .309 w/ gascheck and used 16 gr of 2400 lubed with LLA/JPW and shot .475" 5 shot groups at 50 yards. With no leading at all. This is from a 03A3 2 groove with GI sights (and I wear trifocals!) . Good luck!

[Dean D.]

Until such time as you get your M-die, use needle-nose pliers - stick them in the neck, give a twist (or 2) until the neck is open enough to allow a boolit to start. has worked for me, in the past.

+1 Echo, been doing the same thing for years!