gonna buy a lathe

[skimmerhead]

i'm fininaly gonna break down and buy one. i would appreciate any advice from you more knowagble folks on selecting a machine. i want a lathe and later a mill. i don't want to spend my money twice, thats why i'm asking you guys. right now i'm looking at an enco 13x40 geared-head gap bed lathe. but will be looking at other brands, as i think this is the size machine i want to go with. any advise will be well recieved. thanks

skimmerhead

[hickstick_10]

whats your price range?

[skimmerhead]

whats your price range?

max 5-k

[hickstick_10]

I have no idea what the used machinery situation is in Golden meadow La. Cajun Country so this is just me listing stuff.

5k is goodly sum for a hobby lathe, and will get you a "real" machine.

First off il say the low dollar imports, IE Enco, Jet, Grizzly and harbour freight and so forth and so on, can be all painted with the same brush in that they are low grade hobbiest ****. Included are some (but not all) the reasons these lathes are not used in real shops.

1. Bad electrics if they are anything more complex then a self contained motor turning a belt, those ultra safe safety lock switches are the first thing to break.

1. Handwheels are cheap and break, dials are cheap, apron gears can and do strip.

1. Some I've seen have gears so badly cut in the gear head models that it was almost impossible to change speeds.

I could go on but il say that all the said brands serve their owners well, if not pushed and cared for as well as used lightly. These machines are HOBBIEST GRADE, just because it has a sticker that says "Pro Model" doesn't mean thats the case. There's a reason no serious machine shop uses these things. There is no difference in buying one of these "lathes" and purchasing a 15 dollar 180 peice combo wrench set-----not for serious use.

But your in luck, as you have a good budget for the lathe (im assuming 5 k includes some tooling youl need), unfortunately its a little low to buy new "real grade" but no big deal.

So heres some good used brands in that size to look for used. Reason I advocate buying used is because 5 grand new will get you a junker that you wont be satisfied having put 5000 hard earned dollars into. Anyways heres a partial list.
Kingston, Mori Seki, Mazak, colchester (parts are expensive), clausing, Monarch, Boxford and the list goes on and on and all it takes is a little internet searching.

Things to looks for.

Simplicity: The old style southbend lathes used cone pulleys and belts for speed changes, while you may not like this archaic method this system is very simple and relatively cheap to fix. Blow a bushing or ruin a gear somewhere in the train of a gear head, and get ready for a headache and you can pay the big bills to reapir it just like a real machine shop does .

Change gear machines are tedious: Want to slow down a cut? Speed it up for a facing cut? Set up a threading train wrong? Well get ready to swing open that cover and juggle 4-5 gears, and wrench (possibly 2) and an oil can to change the gear train.

Consider something slightly larger if it comes your way: Bigger machines are not popular with hobbiests, and the size you specify is just touching the end of there comfort zone, because anything bigger may require machinery movers and some slight work to get in their toy room to tinker on, thus making them MUCH cheaper.

Paint condition is meaningless: Machinery.........like women are much more interesting the dirtier they are and the less duds they are wearing. If you buy a used "real" machine, it will likely be FILTHY its been used in a dirty shop that demands production and doesn't allow more then a casual sweeping and a rub down with a rag once in awhile.

Be patients if you go this route: you could have an Enco lathe in a week at your demand if you wanted it, but it may not outlast you, and it certainly will be fit only for the junk heap in 10+ years if you use it in any capacity.

So short version:
1. Buy a used professional grade and name brand machine
2. Must have quick change gearbox
3. Bigger used lathes, are usually cheaper to purchase.
4. Pic a lathe thats simple to fix (example: the old southbend or sheldon style lathe) usually a belt drive with back gears.
5. don't write off a machine because its dirty
6. Don't buy the first one you see, be patient.

[skimmerhead]

I have no idea what the used machinery situation is in Golden meadow La. Cajun Country so this is just me listing stuff.

5k is goodly sum for a hobby lathe, and will get you a "real" machine.

First off il say the low dollar imports, IE Enco, Jet, Grizzly and harbour freight and so forth and so on, can be all painted with the same brush in that they are low grade hobbiest ****. Included are some (but not all) the reasons these lathes are not used in real shops.

1. Bad electrics if they are anything more complex then a self contained motor turning a belt, those ultra safe safety lock switches are the first thing to break.

1. Handwheels are cheap and break, dials are cheap, apron gears can and do strip.

1. Some I've seen have gears so badly cut in the gear head models that it was almost impossible to change speeds.

I could go on but il say that all the said brands serve their owners well, if not pushed and cared for as well as used lightly. These machines are HOBBIEST GRADE, just because it has a sticker that says "Pro Model" doesn't mean thats the case. There's a reason no serious machine shop uses these things. There is no difference in buying one of these "lathes" and purchasing a 15 dollar 180 peice combo wrench set-----not for serious use.

But your in luck, as you have a good budget for the lathe (im assuming 5 k includes some tooling youl need), unfortunately its a little low to buy new "real grade" but no big deal.

So heres some good used brands in that size to look for used. Reason I advocate buying used is because 5 grand new will get you a junker that you wont be satisfied having put 5000 hard earned dollars into. Anyways heres a partial list.
Kingston, Mori Seki, Mazak, colchester (parts are expensive), clausing, Monarch, Boxford and the list goes on and on and all it takes is a little internet searching.

Things to looks for.

Simplicity: The old style southbend lathes used cone pulleys and belts for speed changes, while you may not like this archaic method this system is very simple and relatively cheap to fix. Blow a bushing or ruin a gear somewhere in the train of a gear head, and get ready for a headache and you can pay the big bills to reapir it just like a real machine shop does .

Change gear machines are tedious: Want to slow down a cut? Speed it up for a facing cut? Set up a threading train wrong? Well get ready to swing open that cover and juggle 4-5 gears, and wrench (possibly 2) and an oil can to change the gear train.

Consider something slightly larger if it comes your way: Bigger machines are not popular with hobbiests, and the size you specify is just touching the end of there comfort zone, because anything bigger may require machinery movers and some slight work to get in their toy room to tinker on, thus making them MUCH cheaper.

Paint condition is meaningless: Machinery.........like women are much more interesting the dirtier they are and the less duds they are wearing. If you buy a used "real" machine, it will likely be FILTHY its been used in a dirty shop that demands production and doesn't allow more then a casual sweeping and a rub down with a rag once in awhile.

Be patients if you go this route: you could have an Enco lathe in a week at your demand if you wanted it, but it may not outlast you, and it certainly will be fit only for the junk heap in 10+ years if you use it in any capacity.

So short version:
1. Buy a used professional grade and name brand machine
2. Must have quick change gearbox
3. Bigger used lathes, are usually cheaper to purchase.
4. Pic a lathe thats simple to fix (example: the old southbend or sheldon style lathe) usually a belt drive with back gears.
5. don't write off a machine because its dirty
6. Don't buy the first one you see, be patient.

thank you for your reply, i'm not that much in a hurry as i've been talking about this for 15 years. i have started to look along the lines you have outlinded my ideal would be a southbend or any of the others you outlined. i would prefer a 3 phase. so far the ones i've found are so rusted i think there toast. the market here is very small at best being a small town. but i will continue to search. ithank you for your help and info. plus i have plenty room to put. back truck to the door and slide her in, 24x32 cement slab.

thank you skimmerhead

[dragonrider]

Too bad you don't live here in New England, You would not have to look for long to find what you want. Probably the only reason anyone would want to live here.

[akajun]

Skimmerhread

I know of a couple silencer manufactuers that use the ENCO brand lathes. These guys are professional machinists who work at machine shops, and have these lathes at their home where they run their class 3 operations. They seem to work fine for them.tc customs in Central is one of them.
That said, if you want American, check Craigslist in Baton Rouge and New Orleans and also Ebay in the same areas. Clausing, southbend, atlas lathes all pop up fairly regularly.
I just bought an atlas 12x36 like new for $1000 out of Prarieville.

[skimmerhead]

Too bad you don't live here in New England, You would not have to look for long to find what you want. Probably the only reason anyone would want to live here.

c'mon man, your making me laugh with that! i heard it don't get cold over there!


skimmerhead

[skimmerhead]

Skimmerhread

I know of a couple silencer manufactuers that use the ENCO brand lathes. These guys are professional machinists who work at machine shops, and have these lathes at their home where they run their class 3 operations. They seem to work fine for them.tc customs in Central is one of them.
That said, if you want American, check Craigslist in Baton Rouge and New Orleans and also Ebay in the same areas. Clausing, southbend, atlas lathes all pop up fairly regularly.
I just bought an atlas 12x36 like new for $1000 out of Prarieville.

will give it a go see what i find, thanks for the tip.

skimmerhead

[ph4570]

I have had an clausing/atlas 12x36 for about 25 years. Bought it as NOS still in the shipping crate. It has served me well.

[deltaenterprizes]

Skimmerhread


I just bought an atlas 12x36 like new for $1000 out of Prarieville.

Making aluminum supressor parts does not require much accuracy or power. They can be .005" tolerance.
Atlas is home shop quality,you got what you paid for. read above post.
Atlas has flat ways and uses the lead screw for threading and feeding causing it to wear quickly. The gears are also not top quality.

[Dutchman]

Birmingham 12x36 gear head. Bought it new in 2005. No complaints. It wasn't my first lathe. Been at this 30 yrs. Sub-.001" accuracy. Same as Enco & Grizzly.

[dragonrider]

Ya it gets cold enough 0 or less sometimes, generaly the climate here is quite nice. But I was referin to our political climate which generaly sucks. BTW if you are looking spend around $5000, here you could a lathe, a mill, enough tooling and get change back.

[John Taylor]

I bought a new Birmingham 14X40 a few years back, It is a good lathe . If you are thinking gunsmith I would look at the Grizzly gun smith lathe, http://www.grizzly.com/products/Guns...h-Stand/G4003G

Dutchman, your shop is to clean!

[quasi]

you don't need a Monarch to do gunsmithing work. Most professional gunsmiths use asian lathes.

[David2011]

Skimmerhead,

You might look around Houma, too. There are LOTS of machine shops in the area. I've been using some fairly new Enco milling machines in our college gunsmithing class that I like pretty well and we have a Vectrax lathe from MSC (RA071-3PH) that is very nice to use. Both have DROs. We have a bunch of 13" South Bend lathes as well. The South Bends get more use than the Vectrax even though it only has a few hours on it. The South Bends are more intuitive to most of the guys. They have Morse Taper #5 spindles with a big enough bore to put any rifle barrel other than a 2" blank through the spindle and they have plenty of power.

David

[hickstick_10]

you don't need a Monarch to do gunsmithing work. Most professional gunsmiths use asian lathes.

Agreed, but they'd use a Monarch if they could afford one.

[skimmerhead]

i have no desire to become a gunsmith, not that there is anything wrong with being a gun smith it's 25 years too late, i do not want to do production work! i am retired, if i wanted to do that i would get a big lathe and all my friends would keep me busy working 10 hours a day, 7 days a week for free. so i'll just get me something to do my little projects with around the house. and if i get bored and have nothing to do, i'm sure a phone call will get me up to my ears in projects. i am enjoying all the post i'm getting on this project and want to thank all of you who have posted, and to any future post. i am in your debt. thanks


skimmerhead

[Dutchman]

I bought a new Birmingham 14X40 a few years back, It is a good lathe . If you are thinking gunsmith I would look at the Grizzly gun smith lathe, http://www.grizzly.com/products/Guns...h-Stand/G4003G

Dutchman, your shop is to clean!

That picture is 2 yrs old. You should see it now. I'll try and do some photos next week, sort of a photo shop tour. It's a small shop so it's real cozy but I really like it.

This month I have a 7" South Bend shaper coming from Oklahoma and an ancient 20th Century arc welder, big old copper coils 180 amp monster. And a bunch of box tubing. I gas weld but have no arc welder presently.

I considered the 14x40 when I bought my 12x36. I was downsizing from a 1903 Von Wyck 15x60. I didn't figure the little bit more capacity would make a difference so I went with the 12x36.

Dutch

[Dutchman]

I've shown these before but what the heck..

I have 2 vertical mills, too.

Index Model 40H mfg 1942 Jackson, Michigan. Was sold to Douglas Aircraft to build airplanes for the navy. I've owned it since 1983-4 or so. 1,200 pounds. Has a 1/4 hp motor and I've rarely needed more power.

I really think if you're going to have a lathe that you need a mill. You can do some milling on the lathe but sooner or later you'll outgrow that limitation. Used mills aren't all that bad. I can't imagine life without a lathe & mill but I'm funny that way. They are worth saving the bucks for. And they are worth selling guns to buy. I sold a lot of guns to buy some of this stuff. I use the machinery more and get more out of it.



Enco 1993 Model 1525 "baby bridgeport". I like it. I've been running it for over 1 1/2 yrs now. Bought it used $1700 and shipped it from Wisconsin. 3 phase 10 speed.