Lee Pro1000 vs Dillon 550/650

[Recluse]

Funny, you always read these posts that have been asked 100's of times and it usually starts out with Lee 1000=****. When you offer to buy there Lee 1000 piece of **** miraculously there are none for sale. Funny also when was the last time you saw a used Lee Load master on fley bay, like hardly ever. Wonder what happens to all those crappy load masters out there.

Around here, a bunch of them are at the bottom of Lake Texoma or sitting in the caliche pits with various bullet holes and shotgun patterns on them.

And no, I'm not kidding.

We've found no less than three Loadmasters in two of the local caliche pits we shoot at, and all three had been shot to pieces--I mean, literally shredded.

One of the members of our private range posted pictures on the clubhouse bulletin board of him taking his old Pro1000 and using it as a trot-line anchor in the shallows at Lake Texoma.

I bought a Pro1000 way back when, and I've loaded a gazillion rounds on it. I have it set up exclusively for small-primer rounds and only load three calibers on it--.38 Special, 9mm and .380ACP. It's the .380ACP loading experience that will have me overflying Texoma in the Cessna and chunking that press in the middle of the lake.

You do learn to be a "press mechanic" with a Pro1000. I don't (always) mind tinkering, but what I hate is the unreliability--never knowing if I'm going to have problems loading or not when I sit down at that particular press.

I am NOT a Lee basher by any stretch. Good likelihood that the majority of my bench is red. I, being the strange one that I am, actually like Lee two-cavity molds and have no problems with them. I bought a Lee Challenger press a month after I bought the Pro1000 and have had zero problems with it and only the Lord knows how many rounds IT'S loaded.

Likewise, I like Lee dies and I've traded or sold a Hornady, Lyman and RCBS powder-flo measure while keeping my $20 Lee Perfect Powder Measure. In over thirty years of heavy reloading, I've yet to find a powder measure more consistently accurate than that little twenty-dollar Lee job.

I like RCBS, Redding and Hornady dies. I like the Lyman Crusher press, but there is no better buy for the money and quality you get than the Lee Classic Cast single-stage press. That, along with the Classic Cast Turret, is on my "buy-for-myself" Christmas list this year.

Lee's customer service, beginning in the early days when I was calling every other day about how to run that Pro1000 is what keeps me loyal. The ammo I produce has no idea what color the equipment was that loaded it. Likewise, the deer and wild pigs and doves and pheasants have no idea the color or brand of the equipment that produced the bullet that brought them to my freezer. What's more, I really doubt they'd care all that much.

I bought that Pro1000 for $99. Best hundred bucks I've ever spent in reloading, bar none. That press cranked out round after round of .38 Special for my IPSC addiction. I've pumped out a lot of 9mm as well. I have got my money's worth out of that press a thousand times over, easily.

But would I buy another one today? Sorry, but no. Would I recommend one for someone starting out who is on just as tight of a budget as I was back then? Without hesitation. For $160 bucks complete for one caliber, nobody can touch that. Next closest would be the Square Deal, and it's two and a half times more.

Lemme tell you: I remember what it's like to check the pickup's ash tray and sofa cushions for spare change. Telling someone that spending two and a half times as much money on a reloading press may be easy to do, but you shred your credibility in doing so.

There are some tricks with the Pro1000 I've learned over the years, such as:

1. It works best when mounted to an extremely firm, heavy platform. If you have any wobble or give in your mounting platform, you're in for some misery and frustration.

2. Compromise a tenth of a grain or so and go with the powder-disc measure system rather than that chincy little chain and plunger set up.

3. Before you even load a single primer, disassemble the shellplate carrier and remove the primer chute. Make sure there are no burrs anywhere on the chute where the primers slide. Once that is done, take some hard automotive paste wax (Turtle or Simoniz) and wax the living hell out of that primer chute. Use Q-tips and buff it until it's slicker than an Obama campaign promise. Then, upon putting it back on the shellplate carrier, squirt a little powdered graphite down the chute, and again, use a Q-tip to spread it around. Do that and you'll have a lot better primer feed system.

4. Buy extra three-hole turrets--one for each caliber. I bought a number of Lee .38 Special dies just so I could have a dedicated set/turret for each boolit I load--105 SWC, 148WC, 158SCW, 125JHP--without having to constantly change and fiddle with adjusting them. That's the beauty of Lee's turret system.

5. The handle on the Pro1000 can be removed and "set" to where it offers best leverage for the stroke cycle. I've found that when lowering the ram and setting the primer, it works best if the handle finishes in the 1:00 o'clock position. I see a lot of setups where the handle finishes around two o'clock or three o'clock--I also read from these same people a lot of complaints about having trouble setting the primers.

Lee's Achille's Heel is in their written directions and instructions. They suck. They're dated, they're vague and they just flat suck. I attribute a lot of the frustration to those lousy instructions and directions.

But today we have the internet. Back when I bought that Pro1000, you had to figure it out largely on your own.

But even with all of that said and explained, it (Pro1000 or Loadmaster) still does not even begin to compare with the Dillon 550.

[dromia]

If you are thinking Dillon then look at the Hornady LnL AP as well, its at least as good as the 650 if not better and cheaper too. I love mine.

This link might be of interest:

http://www.comrace.ca/cmfiles/dillon...Comparison.pdf

[Lloyd Smale]

Ive used about all of them. I do have a pro 1000 at the bottom of my pond. The loadmaster is even worse. No doubt someone REAL handy could probably make on work but you could say the same thing about a yugo. The 550 is a good machine but it IS NOT as fast as a square deal or 650. I can run a square deal as fast as i can run a 650 with a case feeder. the shorter stroke makes up for the lack of a bullet feeder. The 550 still is plenty fast to make alot of ammo and unless your one of the 2 percent of shooters that REALLY shoots alot there all a guy needs. Ive got a 550 a 650 and 3 lnl progressives and i dont care what anyone else will tell you the lnls arent better or even quite as good as a 650. Whether the 650 is worth as much more money as it cost over a lnl is debateable though. The lock and loads main weaknesses are its case feeder and to some extent the timing ajustments. Ive ran 650s for a while and never have i had to adjust the timing and it seems like every couple months im fooling with the lock and loads. But honestly if you toss the case feeder there a pretty good darn press. Back when they gave away a 1000 bullets with one they were the bargin of the century. Now with 500 bullets i think id buck up the bit more money for a 650. When the bullets are all shot up your probably going to regret you didnt.

[hunter64]

Mike: I don't have the auto case feeder for the 650 and to compare it to the load master with a case feeder I get about 30 percent more volume is what I meant.

I guess I just haven't had the massive headaches that others have had with the 1000/ load masters. Yes I did some tweaking when I first got the machines like recluse has stated but the biggest help was the Internet and other peoples solutions. Once the known bugs are worked out they run great. With the Dillon I found it was a way better thought out machine to start with and there was more operator error involved in mess ups than actual mechanical problems.

So the old adage that you hear people say is if you are mechanically inclined and can spend 3 hours fixing a machine that should have already been fixed before it was sold to the public and want to spend 1/3 of the cost then go for it.

If you don't want to spend the 3 hours with a Dillon and want it to run out of the box and don't mind the extra 2/3 more money then go for it.

You will be happy with a Dillon 650.

I can make the lee stuff work is all I am saying, it isn't that hard.

[dragonrider]

I have two Pro 1000's and IMHO they should be dedicated to one caliber, if you do multiple calibers you should buy one for each. they are cheap enough to do that. My two are for 380 and 9MM, never change them. Had a loadmaster, nothing but a "***". In six months it never produced usable ammo. I also have a Dillon 650 and for me there is nothing better. If I could afford it I would have several more of them.

[mtgrs737]

I started out loading with a RCBS Rockchucker and I still have it, it still works just as good as when I bought it 38 years ago. A little later I got a couple of Lee Pro 1000's and loaded many 1000's of rounds on them. Then they started to wear a little and being mechanically inclined I keep adjusting them and replacing small parts, Lee was good help to me also. Then I got my Dillon 550B and man what a difference it was, Smooth, Reliable, positive. I soon sold both of my Lee 1000's, I just got my second Dillon 550B the other day. I chose the 550B over the 650 due to the fact that the 550B will load more cal. and I don't need breakneck speed anyway. My choice was cemented by a call to Dillon, the man on the phone said not to buy a 650 that they were having primer dispensing problems with them. That call was many years ago now and I am sure that they got that worked out just fine, but I appreciated his advice. Last weekend I went to a small gunshow and found a NIB Lee Pro 1000 for $75, the guy said: "that's a good price!" I just smiled and said: "It sure is!" Lee is responsible for helping many of us get started in reloading and bullet casting on a shoestring, but not all of their products are perfect, I will still support them and buy those products that work well for me.

[WildmanJack]

Just my 2 cents.
I've had Star's, Lyman, Pacific, RCBS ( still have two of them) and a couple I never did know the name of. I now have a Dillon 450 and 550B. If I had to pick between my old Star Universal loaders ( which I wish I still had!!!) and my Dillons I would be hard pressed to decide which one was better. The Star was smaller, more compact, had auto shell feed, and was as smooth as a baby's bottom to run. The Dillon's (both of them are just as smooth, although quite a bit larger.
But since you can't buy a new Star machine, and f you get an old one, parts are like hens teeth to find. I'll have to go with Dillon. They are the best when it comes to customer service, and so easy to use and set up. For the money, ease of operation, fantastic customer service, and consistent target quality loads I'd go with the Dillon.
Good luck on whatever your choice is.
Jack

[mike in co]

Mike: I don't have the auto case feeder for the 650 and to compare it to the load master with a case feeder I get about 30 percent more volume is what I meant.



If you don't want to spend the 3 hours with a Dillon and want it to run out of the box and don't mind the extra 2/3 more money then go for it.

You will be happy with a Dillon 650.

I can make the lee stuff work is all I am saying, it isn't that hard.

i find it a bit strange.......

of the thousand and thousands of 650's sold...exactly two people have claimed they either did not work or required"three hours" of adjustments to make it work.............(on these forums)

but dillon is able to just barely stay afloat..............

the part i find really strange is that the same person states " I can make the lee stuff work is all I am saying, it isn't that hard."

i dont 'WORK" on my dillons...they work for me......no three hours of adjustments.....no "I can make the (dillon) stuff work is all I am saying, it isn't that hard."

i'm glad u like lee 1000's....but the popular vote says it has nowhere near the following and use as dillon products.

your staement"I can make the lee stuff..... it isn't that hard." says it all..

consider this...time is money.....if you had back all the time you spent making lee's work, you couls own dillon's that do work.
one of my little guidelines in life......time cannot be replaced...no not waste my time.

mike in co

[Recluse]

I have two Pro 1000's and IMHO they should be dedicated to one caliber,

Agree with this 100%.

I load far more .38 Special than any other calibers combined. I shoot it a lot, my wife shoots it a lot, and now the adopted daughter is discovering the joy of blasting her day's frustrations away at paper targets ala 105SWC mouseloads in a S&W Model 19 2 1/2".

So my only Pro1000 stays set up for the .38 Special the vast majority of the time. I have four different turrets each with different .38 Special dies in them, already adjusted for each boolit I load. Staying consistent like that, with the preparation tips I mentioned in a previous post, it's a hard press to beat for the price.

The problems begin when you start changing calibers. Big problems start arising when you change shell plate carriers and so on.

Changing calibers on any progressive is never fun, I don't care what ANY of the companies say or claim. It's a mild to major PITA depending upon the machine and caliber. The 550B is probably the most caliber-change friendly of all true progressives.

[thehouseproduct]

Well I guess that pretty much answers it. Luckily with the Dillon it seems there are always people buying a complete setup with all the trim, realizing they don't want to reload and selling them. I will wait for the right sale and go for it. (Not on here of coarse, finding quality equipment in standard calibers here is impossible.)

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

HMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

I know they are the new dog when compared to Dillon, but other then the opening post I don't see the Hornady LNL spoken of anywhere.

You should at least, find someone who has one set up and running and CHECK IT OUT!

You will find them well below the $700 - 800 you speak of for the Dillon and from what I read much less costly to switch over between calibers.

Then, there is also the "free" 500 bullets that come with the Hornady.

I got mine when they were still giving the 1000 bullets, so that with the goodly amount I had in Cabela's points put me into the progresive at a very good price.

After many years of single stage loading, I did find there to be a learning curve, but the more that I load the more that I find I am at home with the system.

I do not shoot competition, so do not try to push production to the max, figuring that even at a some what leasurely pace I am producing my handgun ammo at a rate waaaaaaaaay beyond that of the single stage.

From what I read, you need to go to the Dillon 650 to get an apples to apples picture of the Dillon to Hornady systems.

Not knocking anyones Dillon here, they must be a very good machine as there are many devoted Dillon owners, but then there are also those who like Lee progressives, so go figure.

Very few Lee items reside in this camp, but that is a personal thing like owning nothing but a Dillon is to other folk, however the old green single stage is still with me and will remain for the loading of rifle ammo.

The Hornady is at least worth a look.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[sargenv]

As good as the 550's are, and even with the case feeder that they now offer... I've had three of four friends blow up their firearm of choice when double charging their pistol case using their manual index 550's.. I have several friends who use the auto index SDB, 650, and 1050's and none of them have ever had the experience of a double charge kaboom. Yes the 650 is a bit steep.. I had the priviledge of using a pro 1000, and previous to that my Rock Chucker for en mass loading.. nothing compares to the 650 in speed of loading and/or changeover from caliber to caliber. It takes me about 15 mins to completely change over from small pistol (40 S&W) to large rifle (30-30, 308 win) which includes die changeover, primer punch changeover, case feed changeover, and powder measure changeover. The calibration of the dies and final set of the crimp etc takes a few more mins.

In addition to loading ammo, I also use the 650 to seat the cores in the 9mm brass that I then later swage with the die from BT Sniper in my 9mm into jacketed 40 S&W bullets.. It can really speed up that process. I have a friend who had the Hornady but he sold it and picked up a 650. There is a reason (besides marketing) that Dillon Blue is so popular. My press has some quirks, but to use anything else would likely really drive me crazy.. When I'm really cranking and in the groove, I'm making my 40 S&W's at the rated 800 ish per hour. Whenever I've broken something.. it's been because I've been impatient, if you don't do what I've done, it will simply keep on cranking out ammo..

[NWFLYJ]

As good as the 550's are, and even with the case feeder that they now offer... I've had three of four friends blow up their firearm of choice when double charging their pistol case using their manual index 550's..

I do not understand how they managed to double charge, they would have to pull the handle on the press twice. That being said, they must of had trouble putting a second bullet on top of the one that was just pressed into the case (with your left hand) and they had to notice that when putting a new case in (with the right hand) that the hole was filled allready.

I have heard it before but don't buy it. My guess is the walked away from the press and came back or was asked a question while operating the press and they forgot what they were doing.

Maybe I'm missing something and have not had my 550 raise its ugly double charge head. Any other 550 users here had the double charge problem? Mark

Good thread on the ledgend of the 550 causing a double charge here.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...+double+charge

Let me say this double charge is my stupid fault and has nothing to do with my Dillon 550. I am quite sure this happened when I was setting the measure and not in the normal routine of loading.

To prevent this from happening again I will use UNPRIMED cases at stage 2 to check and set the powder measure THEN once it is set start reloading. Feel like a complete a$$ over this. 35 years of reloading and....well heck it was a cheap lesson fortunately. If you want to scare the heck out of yourself plus jam a gun up pretty good in the process this is just about as good a way as I can think of. Wish I had a camera when it happened. About the only thing I didn't do is wet myself. To busy kicking myself in the backside for being so dumb!

and yes it was a 1911 - my customized Norinco. Good steel in those guns, would have really upset me if I had broke the gun, got a few bucks tied up into that shooter and she is was great shooter I can tell you.
Take Care

One reason I don't like the 550 is that it doesn't have auto advance. The SDB and 650's do. I've seen two or three guns blown up due to double charged fast burning pistol powder loaded on 550's.

Sargenv, If the bullet is seated in the next station after the powder drop/case flare, then you don't have a place to put a new bullet. So you know you haven't advanced the shellplate, right? It can't be any simpler then that.

[btroj]

While a double charge is possible with a 550 it would take operator error. In the end it is the user who is responsible for the safety of the ammo. This is a case of people blaming the tool for the error of a human.
I am very careful when loading on my 550. I pay close attention to everything and when in doubt, I throw out the round in question. I also never load over 300 rounds at one time- I want to avoid any chance of fatigue becoming an issue.
Anyone not willing to pay close attention has no business using any progressive press. And they are definitely not for a beginner.
Just my opinion, but safety trumps speed every time. And safety is MY job, not the presses.
Brad

[Springfield]

I have had my first 550 for about 18 years and have never double charged case. And I shoot cowboy matches at least twice a month,so I reload more than some. Before that I shot at the range at work every Wednesday at least with my nines and 40's. Now I shoot BP and load my wife's smokeless with Trailboss so it is almost impossible to double charge anyway. But I bought the little flashlight from Unique-tek( http://www.uniquetek.com/site/696296/product/T1255 )and it helps also. Nothing is perfect,and relying on the machine instead of being careful will eventually get you in trouble, kinda like assuming the safety on your gun will always work.

[mike in co]

As good as the 550's are, and even with the case feeder that they now offer... I've had three of four friends blow up their firearm of choice when double charging their pistol case using their manual index 550's.. I have several friends who use the auto index SDB, 650, and 1050's and none of them have ever had the experience of a double charge kaboom. Yes the 650 is a bit steep.. I had the priviledge of using a pro 1000, and previous to that my Rock Chucker for en mass loading.. o..

lets make one thing perfectly clear.
THE DILLON PRESS DID NOT BLOW UP ANY GUNS.
THE OPERATOR CHOSE TO USE A POWDER CHARGE THAT ALLOWED A DOUBLE CHARGE IN THE CASE.
OPERATOR ERROR AND A DUMB CHOICE BY THE OPERATOR.

plain and simple.
dont go putting blame on a MACHINE operated by a PERSON.

i have pointed out several times that using charges of less than 50% OF CASE VOLUME is a dumb decision.....your friends seem to have found that out the hard way.

or denied it was THIER error, and blamed the MACHINE.
ANSWER ME THIS: HOW MANY ROUNDS CAN A 550B LOAD WITH NO HUMAN INPUT ?

mike in co

[sargenv]

I do not understand how they managed to double charge, they would have to pull the handle on the press twice. That being said, they must of had trouble putting a second bullet on top of the one that was just pressed into the case (with your left hand) and they had to notice that when putting a new case in (with the right hand) that the hole was filled allready.

When you load a 45 with 3.3 gr of powder, and if you are fairly new, you may not notice that it dropped 6.6 gr. Personally, I don't like presses that you need advance.. it may be the nut pulling the handle's fault, but when the press auto-indexes, the chances of it happening go down quite a bit since you really have to try and double it. In most cases, they were likely distracted when charging that particular case, they should have dumped the powder (but did not), got lost, and charged it again. Since the powder was not noticeable, they kept going and later on *BOOM*. 8.4 gr of Titegroup can fit in a 40 S&W case and if you are not paying attention, the bullet will seat. Max charge is in the 4.5 gr range with a 180 gr bullet. When you seat them longer than SAAMI max, you might not notice the double charge "bulge" that you'd see in a bullet that would normally be 1.135" STI's and Para's generally have you seating the bullet way out to 1.220".

I know someone who was fairly well versed at reloading double charge a 44 magnum with 2x9 gr of bullseye using a Lee Pro 1000.. again large case capacity coupled with a powder that you could not physically see or overflow lead to disaster. Thankfully he had a strong revolver (Ruger Redhawk) and all it did was seize it up real well. He sent it back to Ruger and they fixed it and sent it back to him. He learned his lesson and taught me to choose powders that will absolutely be noticable as a double charge.. or use a charge that is less than 1/2 of max, so the double will feel a little hot without being dangerous. He had to think about how it happened.. and the thought process went like this.. He dropped the charge, took the case out of the press to check the charge, (at this point he should have dumped it and put it back at square 1), he put the case back in the press, charged it again, and advancd it to seat the bullet. Big oops.. but not really far fetched if you don't catch yourself.

I just related my experiences.. I've personally never had one of these things happen to me.. but I've seen the consequences of it on more than one occasion, the only thing that was common was they were using a Dillon 550 (except for that one other person using the Lee Pro 1000). No need to get angry.. I call em like I see em..

[NWFLYJ]

When you load a 45 with 3.3 gr of powder, and if you are fairly new, you may not notice that it dropped 6.6 gr. Personally, I don't like presses that you need advance.. it may be the nut pulling the handle's fault, but when the press auto-indexes, the chances of it happening go down quite a bit No need to get angry.. I call em like I see em..

Please don't get me wrong, I'm not angry at all. I argee with you about the nut pulling the handle.

If you are loading 45 with 3.3 of powder and it drops 6.6, I'm thinking it is a problem with the powder dispenser not the press. Just kicking idea's around here. Mark

[Tazman1602]

Got a Dillon 550B about 15 years ago and never looked back. I had an issue with it indexing properly about a year ago and Dillon sent me the parts and instructions NO CHARGE and even a bunch of new parts that had been updated, again NO CHARGE. They are a great company to deal with and the 550 even though it is manually indexed doesn't bother me a bit.

.................Now in the longevity department I've still got my RCBS Rock Crusher on the bench right next to it and I've had that one for close to 30 years...................

Art

[sargenv]

If you are loading 45 with 3.3 of powder and it drops 6.6, I'm thinking it is a problem with the powder dispenser not the press. Just kicking idea's around here.

Not so much that it's dropping 6.6, just that the goofball behind the press yanking on the handle may have dropped 6.6 (being distracted and pulling it twice) and there ya go

I've had it happen where I was loading on a progressive 12 gauge press and something got my attention for just a second and I forgot to put a wad where I needed and wound up with an ounce of shot dropped on top of 19 gr of red dot.. and I didn't notice anything until I pulled the shell out of the press and was sitting there wondering why it was dished in.... and then.. oh.. d'uh!

I guess since we are all different, those of us who are very meticulous can't understand those of us who are a little less meticulous or those of us who are downright dangerous when we have our own thoughts (tounge planted firmly in cheek here 8) ) that we can't believe that things can and do go goofy with one little distraction sometimes resulting in catastrophic results.