Good cartridge for beginner to PP?

[10 ga]

Have just finished putting together a couple of smokeless MLs, I gathered the stuff and the smith did the assembly. Have cast for ML since 60s, RBs - REALs - minis and sabot boolits. Have had some CF rifles, using full length gas checks, 17s and such, but now in the hunt for a PP project gun. What is good cartridge for learning PPing. I'm beginning a search for a project gun now. I'm thinking a lever gun in ??? or should I get a single shot, have an Encore frame, or a bolt gun, or a pump as in Rem. 760 or Sav. 170? As usual it's gotta be pretty cheap. It'll be a used/surplus gun unless I get a barrel for the encore. Suggestion and discussion welcome. Thanks, 10 ga

[303Guy]

I'll stick my neck ouit (and get into trouble for it) - Lee Enfield 303 Brit. They often come with cordite eroded/enlarged throat areas which kinda makes them good for PP'ing due to the taper bore and better neck fit that results. It would mean a custom mold. That's for milsurps with well used bores. 30-40 Krag would likely be a better cartridge because of its longer neck but you said cheap and the L E should be readily available and cheap enough. It's also a pretty good choice for medium pressure loads.

[pdawg_shooter]

The 303 is a very good PP round, but then so is the 30-30. My all time favorite is the 45-70 and the .458. For me bigger is better, easier to roll the patch on and more forgiving. However I patch all my 30 cal. and larger rifles.

[docone31]

The .303, and .30cals were my first. They almost fell together! I got results fairly quickly.
I have never done the biggees, but I can sure do the tykes.

[Nobade]

Try PP in your muzzleloader. Won't work with smokeless but it sure does with black. The Lee bullet for the 500 S&W patched is what I use in my 50 cal inlines, with very good accuracy and tremendous effect. Gotta wipe between shots, but loading the charge, seating a card, and wiping to the card works well and is quick.

[redneckdan]

Probably the .45-70 because the bullets are big, .452 sizer dies for sizing down are commonly available. You should be able to find an encore barrel fairly cheap.

[Artful]

for starting I'd vote any straight wall casing - 45-70, 444, 44 mag, 375 WCF, 38-55, 357 max/mag etc as dies come with a neck expander are some of the easist to reload period.

[Marlin Junky]

Anything with a long throat and a gentle leade. I'm not familiar with the .303 but the .30-'06 and .35 Whelen work great. I was getting good 5-shot groups with the Whelen and SAECO 352 almost the first time out... and 2400-2500 fps w/ WW metal.

MJ

[missionary5155]

Greetings
*1 on the BIG bores for the learning curve.

fat boolits are easier to wrap and slap on the bottom. I f I was gonna start today I would pull out the 50-70 or a .45.

[RBak]

Anything with a long throat and a gentle leade. I'm not familiar with the .303 but the .30-'06 and .35 Whelen work great. I was getting good 5-shot groups with the Whelen and SAECO 352 almost the first time out... and 2400-2500 fps w/ WW metal.

MJ

MJ...Would love to hear some more about that Whelen and your paper patch results.

Russ

[Marlin Junky]

MJ...Would love to hear some more about that Whelen and your paper patch results.

Russ

Sorry it took so long to respond... I musta got side tracked.

SAECO 352 cast BHN 10-11, run through a .356" Lee Push-Through sizer lubed with Dawn dish soap, 2 wraps 9# Onion Skin, sized .360" with a Lyman 450. Make sure the wrap has dried a couple days and finger lube sparingly with JPW before sizing in the .360" die. The hardest part is getting the wrap on straight because the nose will be .350" or so and the bands .355"-.356". Should be a piece of cake if the boolit is cylindrical all the way to the ogive (except for the GC shank, naturally).

63 grains of DP-85 (claimed to be like Ramshot Hunter; however, I think it's closer to 760/414)
Fed 215
COL: 3.275
2450 fps (didn't go any fast 'cause the 22" H-R is no fun to shoot with this load)
Accuracy: < 1MOA

MJ

[9.3X62AL]

I'm going to take 303 Guy's advice and wrap up some .308" slugs for my wide-bodied (.315") No. 1 Mk III (1918 BSA). The rifle has done well with castings @ .315", and all that needs doing is to knock out the fired primer and replace it--pour in 16.0 grains of 2400--and seat a bullet after a slight case mouth flaring.

Previous PP'ing adventures have a 1-1 record. The 9.3 x 62 did VERY well with wrapped #358430s. My Ruger #1 did VERY poorly with wrapped .452" 500 grain slugs. I suspect the abrupt rifling leade angle had a lot to do with that, but inside 10 shots the bore was bushed down to about 44 caliber. Utter PITA to de-lead that critter.

[RBak]

Sorry it took so long to respond... I musta got side tracked.

No problem MJ....
I'm always looking and asking about Paper Patching the Whelen, a subject I love to read about.

Probably mostly because my own efforts have been somewhat less than what I would like.

I suspect I'm hoping to see some load, or someone doing something, or using something I'm not, or whatever.... Looking for something magic to happen, I guess you might say....LOL

Russ

[6.5 mike]

Not a lever, unless you can find a 95 win, but the 7.62x54 isn't a bad round to paper patch. Good neck length, lots of molds to choose from, & a whole hell of alot more pleasant then heavy ball, lol. It's a good learning tool, matching boolit to bore size.

[DIRT Farmer]

I have not a lot of experience, but after fighting the Savage 4mk1 two grove with so-so results, then replacing the barrel with another used two grove and immediately having better results, the fastest results I had was the 314299 with two wraps of 20 lb coppier paper and anything from standard cast loads to mid leval jacketed in the 8mm Yugo mauser. I have used Green Dot, IMR4227, Imr 4064 IMR 4350 and IMR 4895. Dry wraped every thing worked.
Best combo in the 303 is 311-291 wraped as cast 20.5 IMR4227.
My goal is a good shooting round cheep.

[rhbrink]

I vote for the Model 39 Finn for the reasons that 6.5 mike pointed out and at least mine has a long throat with a nice gentle lead into the rifleing. Just shot my first paperpatch in it yesterday and shot a 2" group at 100 yards, the first couple of shots were kindof wild about 4 inches then it settled down next two were right together so I moved over and fired 5 more made a nice round 2" group at 100 yards so I think that I can improve on that with a little more load development.

[6.5 mike]

As padawg pointed out the 30-30 is another good choice, brass is easy to get, in a t/c or encore any boolit can be used, & very user freindly. I plan on pp'ing for my 325b.
I though of the russki cuz it's not hard to find one in good shape, even if "bubba" has been there you can re-work it to suit you. With a 200ish gr boolit it would make a real good bambi killer.

[303Guy]

I find that to me the limiting factor with the 303 Brit is the neck lenth and magazine length. Plenty for any J-word but I have this love affair with seriously long and heavy PPCBoos - they allow for slower powders with more case fill. My only killing expirience is on turkey using my all-purpose pig gun boolit with a huge open hollow nose and a healthy 214gr weight. Velocity around 1800 fps. Kills 'em turkeys real dead! I would love a heavier boolit but that's where the magazine length restraints come in. However, for lightweight boolits - in the 190 to 200gr range, there is no problem apart from getting enough neck grip. The longer the neck, the more grip there will be with the oh so slight pressure on the paper patch. Funny thing is, the boolit will seat easier than trying to pull it out again. I do very lightly lube the patch for seating - stops the patch from being pushed up the boolit on seating.