Hammer Swaging with old brass cases?

[Bulldogger]

Hi, my name's Alex and this is my first post after lurking a while. I came to CB.com from HGS where I enjoy their gunsmithing convo's immensely. I got into casting to feed my 9mm when ammo prices leapt to their still unreasonable levels.

Since reading this fine website, I decided to look out for, and found, a nice .41 mag Ruger in barely used condition. I've been casting from the LEE 195gr mold and enjoy shooting it and working up loads.

My introduction out of the way. Here's my quandry: Lately I've been searching for information on hammer swaging and only finding that for pure Pb projectiles for front stuffers for the most part (got some of those too, and glad for the info, but not what I'm looking for).
My question is; can one successfully hammer swage lead core brass case boolits such as those detailed in BTSnipers posts about his .40 and .41 from 9mm brass?
I now those presses are strong and the dies carefully made, but not having a lot of space (common problem) was wondering if anyone's tried beating the **** out of a set of dies made with mason's hammers in mind?

I have a friend who is a machinist, 40+ years experience, and perhaps between the two of us we might turn a set of dies to make a brass jacketed SWC boolit. (am I wrong to call these boolits? They do have awfully large gas checks...)

I hope BTSniper will weigh in, he seems to be one of the leading experts on the forum at present.

Thanks in advance and I look forward to becoming more involved.

Bulldogger

[shaggist]

I would be very careful about pounding on swaging dies with hammers. Instead, I could consider using a vise to be able to apply slow, even pressure to them. The ejector pin, even thought it is 1/4" in diameter, can be bent by blows from a hammer.Ask me how I know this. I would suggest strongly that you invest in a Lee Classic Cast Iron press and use that rather than the hammers. They are not overly expensive and will do for a start.

I live in an apt and have a space limitation also, but I have a reloading/swaging bench in a corner that is only 24"x32" and I could get by with a 15"x30" bench very well. Build a bench out of 2"x4"s and a heavy plywood top, or get a surplus, metal office desk, if you have the room. Both will do nicely until times are better.

[454PB]

My question is why would you want to "pound" them? As shaggist said, the Lee Classic (or Classic Turret) has the power to swage any reasonable bullet.

A machinist with 40 years of experience should have no problem making the proper dies.

[Ervin]

Lee has several Classic Cast factory seconds for sale for $90.66.
Ervin

[Bulldogger]

Thanks for the suggestions all. My thoughts on hammer swaging instead of pressing stem from a balance of my financial and the clutter constrictions.

I want to fire hotter rounds in my Blackhawk and want to make them myself. I think you'll all sympathize there. Either way it's going to cost a fair bit to use existing methods, whether for swaging bullets or to gas check after buying a new mold set up for them.

The idea of hammer swaging appeals to me because I have hammers and can find something to pound on, I only need dies then. I want a flat nose SWC shape so the drive out pin could be a little bigger. A vice would give better pressure and molding probably, I grant you that. But of course I'd have to have one to do that. I could perhaps drive to where I can use one, but the self-sufficiency virus I have makes me think that's cheating. Plus my machinist buddy lives 40 minutes away and I can only travel on weeknights after work.

It's just trying to feed my habit but looking for a solution that fits within the natural and artificial constraints I'm under right now in my life. I won't buy another press, I'm decluttering my life and house. Maybe I can talk myself into a vice. ACE has them, they're not great but they're approachable in terms of price. Vices are not showing up used on Craigslist around me (DC metro Northern Virginia), I guess cause I live in a yuppy hippy prick area where when the going gets tough the tough yank out a cell phone. (I hate these people. But can't move just yet.)

I've asked this question privately to a few acquantainces as well, if I come up with anything I'll post it here.
BDGR

[Daywalker]

Lee has several Classic Cast factory seconds for sale for $90.66.
Ervin

YIKES!! factory seconds for 90.66??

Dang, go to midway usa and get them brand new http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=317831

I believe they are like 85 bucks....

[rmaster14145]

My question is why would you want to "pound" them? As shaggist said, the Lee Classic (or Classic Turret) has the power to swage any reasonable bullet.

A machinist with 40 years of experience should have no problem making the proper dies.

you can swage on a lee classic press? REALLY? the one i have dont look like it will hold up.

rm

[Daywalker]

you can swage on a lee classic press? REALLY? the one i have dont look like it will hold up.

rm

The lee classic yes, the breach lock no. I would not try swaging on the aluminum frame. However, there are quite a few swagers on this forum that used the classic cast for their swage press.

[Jim_Fleming]

I used to use my Lee Classic, and used it for years until I got my mighty mite from Corbin to make .224 Brass Pills...

Yes, Sir, it can be used... carefully.

you can swage on a lee classic press? REALLY? the one i have dont look like it will hold up.

rm

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

The idea of hammer swaging appeals to me because I have hammers and can find something to pound on, I only need dies then. I want a flat nose SWC shape so the drive out pin could be a little bigger. A vice would give better pressure and molding probably, I grant you that. But of course I'd have to have one to do that. I could perhaps drive to where I can use one, but the self-sufficiency virus I have makes me think that's cheating. Plus my machinist buddy lives 40 minutes away and I can only travel on weeknights after work.

Get your Machinist friend to make a Die...Maybe out of a 3" cube of steel and pound away with a punch. then remove the removable base pin, you could then pound out the finished projectile. Sounds reasonable, eh ?
Jon

[barrabruce]

How about getting him to make up a square threaded screw. Ie: G type clamp with some cheater bars on it for a bit of oomph and swing?

Hydralic car jack and a adaptor plate?? may be.
Or just let the car back down on the dies.

Make a set up so when cars run over them thy compress it.

Every time you go in and out you have one more bullet swaged.
Even the greeny hippy things would havetu love that one.

There goes my idea of a wack'em swaging die set then

[Jim_Fleming]

Bulldogger:

You're going to do as you choose, and we respect that, however you're going to spend several hundred dollars, at least, on precision tooling. To beat on with a hammer...?

Here's a link to www.harborfreight.com 's website that includes a listing of vises. Vises that ranges from $8.00 up to $100.00. You can have them shipped directly to your domicile. Some of these vises are literally suction cup vises, some are workbench kind to be permanently mounted, etc...

At least use a vise, if you don't care to buy a press...

Just my $0.02 cents worth...

[Smokin7mm]

I want to fire hotter rounds in my Blackhawk and want to make them myself. I think you'll all sympathize there. Either way it's going to cost a fair bit to use existing methods, whether for swaging bullets or to gas check after buying a new mold set up for them.

If you already have a mold for your blackhawk you could try going to the gas check section of this board. Pat Marlins makes a gas check maker that makes a thin gas check to be used on plane base bullets. Might be an option if you already cast. I both cast and swage for different applications. Personally if I need a gas check mold I just get one but I do understand the financial thing. You could also go over to the Swappin & Sellin section and look for a gas check mold of your liking. If gas check prices are an issue there again Pat Marlins makes check makers to stamp out your own. Plain base or regular gas check molds. Lots of options.
Bret

[mroliver77]

I dont know about the .41 but I fire near max loads of plain based cast from my .357, .44mag and 45 Colt Blackhawks with good accuracy and no leading. Make sure boolit fits right and water drop WW with Felix lube.
Jay