Lee 6.5 Swede "Cruise Missile" in 6.5 Carcano

[Boz330]

Dan, I'm not sure if you are asking me but I dip my CMs in Lee Liquid Alox. I don't have a size die big enough to lube the .272 boolits.
Try some really slow loads and see what that does for your stability and group size.

Bob

[DanM]

Boz....Naaa, don't want to mess with loads that slow. Kinda a waste of boolits IMHO. I am just starting with the Carcano, and realize these little rifles require a lot of 'special attention' to get good cast accuracy. Frustration level is still low. Just tried my very first loads Monday, so I am sure that the development period will continue for a while longer. My cast loads are 1800+ for every rifle I shoot. I am sure the Carcano will require more experimentation than the No.4Mk.2 Enfield or the M48 Mauser did to get to that mid-range performance level, and that is part of the fun for me.

[Boz330]

The 30 cals are a lot easier to work up loads for with cast, but I still think that the gain twist is the buggaboo with this rifle. JMHO and I have been wrong many times before.

Bob

[DanM]

You might be right, and the CM bullet is soo long it may really get distorted in that gain twist bore. I am going to try having the bottom band milled off the extra mold I just ordered. That makes a shorter 150gr bullet that might work better. If it doesn't work in the carcano, I am sure it will be great in the M96 Swede.

[okksu]

Noob question: Is there anyway to mill/cut the CM boolit to get rid of the rear Driving band, without milling the mold, so that the shorter boolit could be tested in a rifle without first doing a permanent change to the mold?

Not doing a Cacarno, but I just cast up some CM's out of the Mid-South mold for a couple of Swedes I have. As cast, I seated a couple of dummy rounds so that there is rifling impressions on the nose, but that leaves the gc'd base extending down nearly to the beginning of the case shoulder. Doesn't seem like that's probably going to work well......

[Hang Fire]

Noob question: Is there anyway to mill/cut the CM boolit to get rid of the rear Driving band, without milling the mold, so that the shorter boolit could be tested in a rifle without first doing a permanent change to the mold?

Not doing a Cacarno, but I just cast up some CM's out of the Mid-South mold for a couple of Swedes I have. As cast, I seated a couple of dummy rounds so that there is rifling impressions on the nose, but that leaves the gc'd base extending down nearly to the beginning of the case shoulder. Doesn't seem like that's probably going to work well......

The Lee Cruise Missile does pose some interesting scenarios. Mine casts WW at .271". My Lyman boolit sizing die is .264", my M-38 Swede groove dia is .2685". What to do?

I seated and crimped the gas check first in .264" LS die using the old #45 lube/sizer. Have a .257" sizing die, so did the nose first thing to take the .263" nose down to just shy of the first band. But with the short leade of the M-38, the boolit would still have to be seated well below the shoulder. So ran the boolit nose first into the .264" die, first and second band to .264", third band at .267" as it entered the taper and left last two bands at .271". Lo and behold and by gosh, can now seat the GC right at base of neck, dummy rounds chamber and fuction fine through the action and all is now well for the CM test drive.

[okksu]

Interesting alternative, Hang Fire. Let me know how that testing goes. It would mean another size die, for me, but hey, if it works......... Still thinking about how to take the back end off without altering the mold. Maybe all this needs to go to a separte Swede thread?

[45 2.1]

I seated and crimped the gas check first in .264" LS die using the old #45 lube/sizer. Have a .257" sizing die, so did the nose first thing to take the .263" nose down to just shy of the first band. But with the short leade of the M-38, the boolit would still have to be seated well below the shoulder. So ran the boolit nose first into the .264" die, first and second band to .264", third band at .267" as it entered the taper and left last two bands at .271". Lo and behold and by gosh, can now seat the GC right at base of neck, dummy rounds chamber and fuction fine through the action and all is now well for the CM test drive.

If Lee would produce these molds cut to the original correct specs, you wouldn't need to go thru this. BRP has the correct specs for the cruise missle............. enough inquiries would get the cherry cut.

[geargnasher]

I nose-size my cut-down Cruise Missiles for my M96 Swedes, with the Lyman .266" H&I die, I run them in nose-first to size the first band to .266 and the second tapered .267" to .2675", this, with .2713" driving bands fits both of my Swedes like a glove seated to engrave with the gas check at the base of the cast neck, leaving .001" chamber neck clearance the way I form and trim my case necks.

But..............no matter what I've tried, it makes elliptical holes at 25 yards and full keyholes at 50-75. I think the boolit is cursed. It keyholes for everyone that tries it.

Gear

[danyboy]

I recently bought a swedish mauser 150gr. Lee mold and a double cavity Lyman 170gr. and was wondering how much Unique powder I could load with each. any help would be welcome.
Thank you.

[geargnasher]

I recently bought a swedish mauser 150gr. Lee mold and a double cavity Lyman 170gr. and was wondering how much Unique powder I could load with each. any help would be welcome.
Thank you.

PM Larry Gibson and give him exact details of your gun/components and all measurements thereof.

Gear

[muzzleblastm38]

where can i find a lee mold cruise missile? cant finde it in lee catalogue

[okksu]

That mold can be found here:
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.co...u=000066.5SWED

[muzzleblastm38]

thanks okksu

[eric_2902]

I lapped out my front driving bands on both cavities of my CM mould to .269 and this made a big difference. If the nose was full diameter I reckon things would run real smooth.

.303Guy is going to make me a full length bearing paper patch mould for my Carcano to test the theory.

Doing a follow up on this with you. I just started on my Carcano and found this thread. I went forward and bought the CM mold from Midsouth but have a couple questions on your lapping exercise...Can you provide a little more detail on exactly what you did here? got to break it down so a simple minded retired artilleryman could understand

also, what size are folks using for gas checks?

Great post by the way.

Thanks

Eric

[JeffinNZ]

I make my own checks and the die throws them at .270(ish).

Lately I have done a lot of testing with the illustrious CM. I have been trying to create round bullets to no avail I might add.

First experiment was to cut the bullet down to 1 inch. I chopped off the GC shank, rear band an bottom lube groove then squared up the new base by running a file over the bullet which was held in my sizing die. Perfectly square bullets, fantastic accuracy in the 2 MOA realm..........OVAL holes.

The next experiment was to more the centre of gravity of the bullet backwards by hollow pointing the bullet. I ran a 2.5mm hole 11mm deep into the bullet. Great accuracy......you guessed it.....OVAL holes. Next I ran a 3mm 18mm or half way into the bullet. OVAL holes. All the holes were perfectly centered.

Bottom line is there is something fundamentally wrong with the CM in a Carcano. My Carcano has a static twist and not gain. My friend, "Tertle" has a Carcano identical to mine and my CM load does exactly the same in his rifle. GREAT accuacy at 100m but oval holes. I have given up now. The rifle is accuarte at 100m which is as far as I want to shoot those sights on wallabies and the recipient is none the wiser of the wobbly bottom bullet.

[45 2.1]

But..............no matter what I've tried, it makes elliptical holes at 25 yards and full keyholes at 50-75. I think the boolit is cursed. It keyholes for everyone that tries it. Gear

No... not everyone has those problems. Powder choice and loading method has a lot to do with that. The cruise missle shoots quite well from the Jap, M/S and Swede when you find out how.

[eric_2902]

I make my own checks and the die throws them at .270(ish).

Can you talk me through how you make your gas checks? Some sort of press? they are pretty much the only variable in my reloading habit besides powder and primers that seems to drive up costs. I have a bunch of brass for all my cals and getting great life on them, i cast for everything and get free lead locally, but the damn gas checks...if i could figure out how to make them it would stretch my shooting budget.

thanks

Eric

[JeffinNZ]

No... not everyone has those problems. Powder choice and loading method has a lot to do with that. The cruise missle shoots quite well from the Jap, M/S and Swede when you find out how.

So what's the secret? I load over 25gr H4350 topped with 8gr of BPI filler and a stout crimp. Bullet is throat diameter.

[45 2.1]

So what's the secret? I load over 25gr H4350 topped with 8gr of BPI filler and a stout crimp. Bullet is throat diameter.

Its not a 1-2-3 set of instructions. You have to learn how to use the filler correctly. That involves learning how much compression to use on the buffer and powder that goes in a particular cartridge. In other words you have to be more than a component assembler as this isn't as simple as it sounds. Buffer does need some compression, too little and it doesn't work and the same with too much. That amount differs per case shape and capacity along with boolit weight. Starmetal took two months to learn how and used a bag of buffer and a couple pounds of powder before he caught on. Now he won't use anything else.