Lee 6.5 Swede "Cruise Missile" in 6.5 Carcano

[Daryl]

Based on recommendations here, I was able to pick up the Lee 6.5 Swede mold to use for my 6.5 Carcano.

This is a huge projectile, no wonder is was referred to as the Cruise Missile.

I load this with the gas check still in the neck - the round will chamber fine but will not fit in the clip or magazine. It would need to be seated deep enough so that the gas check would be entirely into the shoulder area of the case and not at all supported by the neck.

What's anyone do here?

Thanks

Daryl

[leadhead]

I shoot this boolit in about a dozen carcano and I seat them
below the neck with no problem.
Denny

[mooman76]

I could be wrong but I would think you are not going to get the full benefit of the GC loaded that deap so why not try some without it.

[Gee_Wizz01]

I could be wrong but I would think you are not going to get the full benefit of the GC loaded that deap so why not try some without it.

I haven't seated below the neck with the CM, but I have seated boolits below the neck in 7.62X39. I tried with and without a GC, and the boolits with the GC shot very accurately, with no leading. The bullets without a GC didn't group near as well. I haven't tried with other calibers, so I don't have a lot data. My recommendation is to just give it a try.

G

[DanM]

Your cruise missle mold should drop at .270-.271", so you will likely need a custom .270" inch sizing die, even if it just to apply the checks. Buckshot is making one for me, and always does fine work.
I have never had a problem seating the base below the neck when needed.

[Daryl]

Your cruise missle mold should drop at .270-.271", so you will likely need a custom .270" inch sizing die, even if it just to apply the checks. Buckshot is making one for me, and always does fine work.
I have never had a problem seating the base below the neck when needed.

Thanks, I did get one of Buckshots' .269 to start with.

I guess I'll go ahead and seat below the neck for now and appreciate continued input.

I'm thinking of having a friend mill off about .185" from to top of the mold - that would eliminate the gas check shaft and the lowest driving band - then try using that first lube groove for the gas check.

Any thoughts on that?

[geargnasher]

Daryl, I've milled off one of the recent Midway moulds on one cavity to make a shorter, gas-checked boolit for the Swedish Mauser. Check out this thread to see how they turn out, and you might PM JimInPhx and ask him if he got a chance to shoot some that I sent him for his Carcano. They came out about 150 grains IIRC after shortening.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...cruise+missile

Gear

[JeffinNZ]

DARYL: My OAL for the Carcano/CM is 2.965 and the GC is half out of the neck. That feeds perfectly evertime. I lapped out the front bands on my mould to throw at .269 (previously .267) and this helped accuracy as did a decent crimp. I firmly believe that the BEST Carcano bullet would be a Loverin at .270 with as much throat riding contact as possible. One day.............

[Daryl]

Daryl, I've milled off one of the recent Midway moulds on one cavity to make a shorter, gas-checked boolit for the Swedish Mauser. Check out this thread to see how they turn out, and you might PM JimInPhx and ask him if he got a chance to shoot some that I sent him for his Carcano. They came out about 150 grains IIRC after shortening.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...cruise+missile

Gear

Yes, perfect - that's exactly what I had in mind. But, I'll just have both cavities done. I'll be able to have my friend do it on MOnday and give it a try.

Daryl

[Boz330]

If you have the gain twist barrel the shorter boolit might work better. I haven't found any load for my Carcano that the boolit is stable going through the target. I was thinking about milling mine down but I might even do away with the gas check.

Bob

[Daryl]

Milling is done and cast. Lube groove was about .200" vs. about .252" on the gas check so checks were loose. I used a .250" reamer that I had and chucked it in the drill press and just turned it by hand. Seems to have the new check shaft big enough so that the checks will not pull off with fingers. The do rotate by hand - but they also did before. So, now the real trial at the range yet to come.

The bullet will seat nicely to give just the COL needed and keep the check in the neck.

[Buckshot]

................My fingers are crossed for mucho success!

..............Buckshot

[DanM]

What velocity is needed to stabilize the cruise missle in a carcano? I tried my first loads yesterday, and they hit sideways at 50yds. Velocity was around 1580fps or less. I know some have done well with this bullet, but at what speed?

[Daryl]

Good question on the Velocity.

Here's today's range report.

On all I used 16.0 of 2400 because that's what I use very successfully in the 762x54R out of a Mosin. I'm guessing this gives 1600 to 1800 FPS

I had six with the original length cruise missile, seated to 2.90 COL which put the gas check about .20" below the neck.

At 50 yards I struggled to get it on a target. The two hits I had were sideways.

Then, I used the shortened missiles (12) out of the milled down mold. These seat at 2.90" with the gas check still in the case neck. Only found paper a couple times, but they did appear to go strait in.

So, where from here? Up the load, different powder? Is this rifle/cartridge that far off?

Thanks

[Boz330]

What velocity is needed to stabilize the cruise missle in a carcano? I tried my first loads yesterday, and they hit sideways at 50yds. Velocity was around 1580fps or less. I know some have done well with this bullet, but at what speed?

Dan,
I have the cavalry carbine and the faster I pushed the CM the worse it was. I did manage to get some 2 to 3 inch groups but the holes were oval and this was at 100yd. The loads were really slow. This is why I wanted to mill the mold down some.
My theory is that with the gain twist the long driving area on the CM tends to strip the rifling as it goes down the bore. The shorter boolit driving area doesn't strip quit as bad. This may not hold water but to me it makes sense.
I'll have to check my notes but I was thinking I got my best groups from 5744. I didn't have any luck with 2400. My go to powder is 4759 and even that didn't do very well. If SRS doesn't get me I'll look at my notes tonite.

Bob

[Daryl]

Maybe someone could suggest a load for me to try next with the shorter CM

On hand I have several pistol powders and H110, Trail Boss, RL 7

Daryl

[DanM]

I just ordered a second CM mold from Midsouth (yes, they still have some). I am going to see about having it cut down as described. What weight are you guys getting after milling off the bottom band? Also, I have been gluing checks on because my .270 sizer does not crimp them enough. Will see about opening up the base area a little.
16grs of 2400 gave me only about 1500fps with my full length CM bullets. 25grs of imr4350 clocked at 1567fps avg. That was with PSB filler to the top. Both hit sideways at 50yds. Have some test loads with 27 and 29grs 4350 ready to try. I don't remember the model number, but the Carcano i am using has the common mid length barrel and the adjustable sight. I got some more H4198 that works well in 6.5x55. Will load up some with that soon.

BTW....Midsouth also has both 8mm Karabiner and Maximum custom molds in stock too.

[JeffinNZ]

Interestingly DanM, 25gr of H4350 topped off with 8gr BPI original buffer gives me 1750fps with a CM. I get oval holes in the target but VERY good accuracy. See following:

I now FIRMLY believe a large amount of the problems that folk are having with the CM in Carcanos stems from the bore riding nose not being supported in the throat. When seated to a depth to feed through a Carcano magazine the CM has only two driving bands out front and one of them is only .267 in diameter. Now my Carcano throat is .269 so if you consider only one full diameter driving band engaging what happens went the case neck 'gives'? That driving band becomes a pivot point due to the unsupported nose and the bullet is allowed to skew before it enters the rifling. THIS is where I believe things go wrong.

I lapped out my front driving bands on both cavities of my CM mould to .269 and this made a big difference. If the nose was full diameter I reckon things would run real smooth.

.303Guy is going to make me a full length bearing paper patch mould for my Carcano to test the theory.

[Boz330]

Checked my notes this morning and the 5744 gave me the best group size with the CM. The entry holes were oval but the group wasn't bad.
Jeff, my CM mold throws a a .272 and the bore is .269 and I'm still getting the skewed entry holes. I didn't slug just the throat though, it could be eroded some although this is overall a pretty pristine rifle.

Bob

[DanM]

Hmm....I have been thinking about sendng my prochrono in for service, as it has started to cut itself off sometimes even with a fresh battery. Maybe the problem is affecting readings too. I am sure there would be some difference between the IMR and Hogdon 4350, but not that much. Still, with 25grs, and the same filler, mine are hitting full sideways at 50yds. No point in trying them further out. The bore on this carcano is near excellent, best of the three I have. It slugs .269" at the muzzle, haven't checked the throat. Your theory sounds reasonable. If my results don't improve, lapping may be the way to go for this mold. Are you filling all the lube grooves, or leaving the front one dry?