lead bullets coated with polymer paint

[JWC07]

This powder is also available through powder by the pound...

I believe that is powderbythepound on eBay. Both located in Nolensville, TN.

[KTM400]

Hi Folks - new member here. I have been reading and absorbing as much as I can as I am going to try both PC and Klass Kote methods. Here is my question regarding the powder coat method being discussed here.

Is it the high temp PC required or does the standard PC work just as well. Also, the high temp requires a higher cure temp. Can anyone comment on if they have used both types. I'm referring the powder by the pound PC.

http://www.powderbuythepound.com/JACK-S-BLUE/
compared to
http://www.powderbuythepound.com/High_Temp_Powders/

Thanks

[prickett]

KTM,
I can't answer because I've not used the powder by the pound powder, but a number of us use the HF powder which isn't a high temp powder. Based on that, I'd assume you wouldn't need the high temp powder by the pound powder.

[KTM400]

Fair enough assessment.

Thanks.

[firefly1957]

I just started using the powder coat paint available from Harbor Freight for coating bullets so far so good . I have even driven some at higher speeds in a 357-44 B&D the only problem was the bullet needed a half jacket to keep from riveting in the case as it's base sits well below the case neck. They shot fine from the 45 acp and those bullets were cast as 38 bullets or cut from 5/16" lead wire coated, baked then swaged to .452. If that is not impressive nothing is i tried to copper plate lead and it would all come off when i did the same.

Note somehow i have missed this thread and did not read though all the posts so am not sure if this is a repeated subject.

[bstone5]

PowderByThePound

I use regular polyester powder coat TGIC from PowderByThePound.
This coating has worked very well in coating pistol bullets. The cure temperature is 400 degrees for 10 minutes with the parts at temperature.

I use a cabinet top convection oven, made by GE, purchased at Target. I put the coated bullets on the non-stick aluminum foil on top of thin sheet metal.

To heat every thing up to 400 degrees and keep the temperature at 400 degrees for 10 minutes I set the time on the convection oven for 20 minutes.

I have coated close to 10,000 bullets of various calibers with the material.

Test the coated bullet with a smash and acetone wipe test to make sure the polyester powder coat is properly cured.

I use a powder coating gun and also the piglet method with the same powder coat.

With a few times the process becomes very easy.

[GunFun]

I'll have to look into that non-stick aluminum foil. My friend's modified piglet method (using laquer thinner rather than Acetone) uses a hardware cloth rack. The smallest roll of 1/4" hardware cloth I could find was over $37 USD. A bit steep for a tray or two to fit in a toaster oven.

So my initial thoughts are dayglo for jacketed velocities, and dull gray for sub-sonics. Maybe using colors to denote soft alloys. Pink for light loads for my female friends and any men who are acting macho... Any thoughts of standardizing some color codes to denote types of loads?

[olaf455]

Any thoughts of standardizing some color codes to denote types of loads?

I'm in, thinking red for hi velocity a the pigment in redish colors seems very hearty...

[w0fms]

Ugh.. the powder gun is on sale at HF and I had a 20% off coupon.. so I got another thing to try. I'm having leading in my 45 no matter what I try with TL and even TL+adding Emmert's (type) lube in the grooves... so maybe this will do it. I'm going to have to try both methods, but for $45 how could I have resisted the powder coat spray gun? I'll let you know in a couple of weeks my results. Pistol only at first...

I suspect I can also powder coat my electronic projects, so I'm probably golden with this splurge...

[firefly1957]

GunFun I am thinking that instead of getting a roll of hardware screen i might be good to use the screen in a over the stove fan to try it . For in the toaster oven it is about the right size.

[KTM400]

Got around to casting and Klass Kote-ing some boolits today. These were made from SOWW. I used klass kote 2 part epoxy with satin catalyst. These boolits were coated and cooked twice. Not sure I need to do a 3rd coat. The smashed boolit in the pick passed the hammer test quite well. No crack, flake or peel. I was going for Oscar the Grouch green but they baked a little dark. Kinda OD. Pick with a Precision Bullet black bullet for finish comparison.

Thanks to all those here for their info.

[jmort]

Those bullets look real nice.

[GunFun]

Well, I got to test my first intentionally small batch yesterday.

Method:
I used bullets that had been lubed with 45/45/40 then soaked in Acetone for 3 days and agitated to remove lube. There were some pollen colored deposits in the TL grooves still though. I chose these particular bullets because I must have got the alloy a lot softer than my usual. Last time around shooting some of the same batch got SEVERE leading using 45/45/10, and sized to .358". So to put it differently, this is an alloy that should lead badly. Therefore, if the PC works, I know that I can run softer than normal alloys.

I used Lacquer thinner rather than acetone and 400 Degree 10 minute PC from powder by the pound. RAL 5011 Steel blue SKU 1674.
I probably ended up using a lot more PC than required, but there is the learning curve. The advantage of lacquer thinner is that it makes the powder only stick to the bullets, rather than to the tub. Dolomite Supafly described the powder balling up with itself prior to the bullets when he used it, but mine stayed in the bottom of the tub until I threw in the bullets.Perhaps it is a matter of the brand of thinner, or the color of powder. At any rate, he was right about PC only sticking to bullets. My mistake was putting it on a bit thick. I waited a little then decided to add another handful of bullets to thin down the coating. The PC stayed stuck to the original bullets, because it had set a little I think. So I ended up needing to add powder to the batch to coat the newer additions. Lesson learned. keep the # of bullets down to a level easily tumbled. Don't add bullets, and start on the low side of powder, adding more scoops as you toss in the first minute or so of tumbling.

I used a cookie sheet lined with non stick reynold's wrap. It left flats and crusties where the bullets contacted. I will need to find some cheap mesh for future batches. I baked at 400 for about 11 minutes.

I pushed them all through a lee .358" sizer, and they just glided through. There is definitely a low friction coefficient to this stuff.

The few that I hammer tested passed with flying colors. I did not get any seperation until I pounded the bullets to 1/16" thick, and then only at the edges of the sample. However, I did notice some patches had shaved away when I pulled a couple loaded bullets. So more flaring is required.

Range results:
I fired several magazines full, taking my barrel out between mags and examining for leading. 110 total shots. My barrel started extremely clean and as smooth as 45+ minutes of scrubbing the bore with a brush and 0000 steel wool plus Hoppes 9 would get it (after the last leading debacle.) powder fouling made it hard to see how clean the bore was in the waning light. However, after coming home I ran a brush and some oil through a few passes to clear the powder then a couple patches. The bore was spotless. Success. I suspect I could use thinner PC and softer lead and get away with it. I need to do a phone book test to see how soft I can go without stripping the engraving. I would love to be able to get away with air cooled pure PB in a pinch. I was having accuracy issues the last couple range trips (which used the same batch of softer bullets with 45/45/10 then PC respectively ), so engraving stripping could be the explanation. Further examinations needed. My shots felt a little on the snappy side and were hitting lower than normal, so there may also be a velocity gain. The load dimensions and powder were the same standard load I use.

Another thought on method improvement: We need to get Ronco rotisseries or similar and rig a coffee can or mesh drum in place of the rotisserie. That way they can tumble as they bake and avoid any flats or rack marks. This is similar to the process which Klass Kote suggests for production application and curing of their product, only obviously smaller.

[Gremlin460]

Thanks for the advertisement Piglet! The OMJ GunWorks is my gun business and I cast and produce under the label of Gateway Bullets. I am currently selling cast bullets and once fired brass.

HI-TEK has been wonderful to work with and his product is top notch!

I have only had one problem to date. Some how one of those Australian Drop Bears managed to get into my shipment and now we have a breeding population here in the states! We found one of them hanging from the Arch not that long ago! Lol

Do NOT stand under the arch!

[Gremlin460]

Hi Trev, I am up in Brizzvagas, where can I get my mits on some Hi-tech colouring stuffs around here?
As you can see from the post count I am also the *** who just read this thread from one end to the other.

[Gremlin460]

Just stopped at the local scrap yard and asked about any spare coww. Ocker walks over and sez, sure mate few kilos in that 44gal drum there 0.85 a kg.
So i look in the drum, its about half full, grab a handfull, looks like they have been sorted, no FE or Zn in sight.
trying not to look pleased I ask how much for the half drum?
So he swings it up onto the scales with a hook, 255kg or just over 551lb USA measurements..
I say, ah well guess that will have to do..

now I got to work out how the hell I am going to lift it out of the back of the van!!
Was thinking on way home, 255kg less dross is, working on 359/124gn HP @ 124 per kg gives me around 31,600 not including ingots at home.... now i am smiling..

[HI-TEK]

Just stopped at the local scrap yard and asked about any spare coww. Ocker walks over and sez, sure mate few kilos in that 44gal drum there 0.85 a kg.
So i look in the drum, its about half full, grab a handfull, looks like they have been sorted, no FE or Zn in sight.
trying not to look pleased I ask how much for the half drum?
So he swings it up onto the scales with a hook, 255kg or just over 551lb USA measurements..
I say, ah well guess that will have to do..

now I got to work out how the hell I am going to lift it out of the back of the van!!
Was thinking on way home, 255kg less dross is, working on 359/124gn HP @ 124 per kg gives me around 31,600 not including ingots at home.... now i am smiling..

Now that is a good score.
Well done
Lifting out, is easy. Use gloved hand, and unpack into steel open topped pails, and trolley them to where you want the stuff.

I saw another guy do same thing and he used that system. He paid a lot more than you.

[NineInchNails]

Frankv I am very interested in your experience with the Powder By The Pound High Temp Silicone Powder. I have read a LOT about coating cast bullets and it looks & sounds like you found a good material to use. Just a few questions if you don't mind.

1. Have you tried a smash test on any of your boolits after they have been coated with the high temp silicone powder?
2. Do you find that you get excellent adhesion from one coat to another using the high temp silicone powder?
The reason I ask is because PBTP has a warning listed for that high temp powder, "THIS PRODUCT CANNOT BE SECOND-COATED". Also I know a PC guy that's right down the road from me and he has told me before that 'his high temp powder' is harder and more brittle than the lower temp stuff.

3. You mentioned that you use 4-parts Acetone to 1-part Powder. Have you tried using lacquer thinner? Many have said lacquer thinner works better with other types of PC so I just thought I'd ask.

I will soon go over to the powder coating guy's shop and find out what types & brands of powders he has in stock. Maybe he will be willing to sell me some and small quantities to experiment too! He has an excellent selection of colors too.

[Gremlin460]

Well I have decided I will go with the HiTek method me thinks, several reasons Hi_tek has done the hard yards with research and product suitability. He obviously has got it right due to the massive following in Australia in the shooter ranks. Secondly I live in AU so availability is also easier for me.
I am not sure, but I think the GCPC (Gold Coast Pistol Club) where I shoot may be using his product, the club reloads are not Jacketed but have a familer colouring to what I have seen in this thread.
Not casting (pun intended) doubt on the PC method, but really, it is a product being used for something it was never intended to do. It may work, and for those that use it, I hope it does. On my part, I have never found a axe to make a satisfactory hammer. So I will stick with the right tool for the right job ideal. Some may say epoxy coating was never meant to shoot either, maybe, maybe not, but when a chemist like Hi-Tek spends years tailoring a mixture for a particular application, well then yes it is.

Either Lubed,patched PC or Stained, I would still have much fun standing next to you on the range and perforating targets. At the end of the day, fun is fun.

[jmort]

"Not casting (pun intended) doubt on the PC method, but really, it is a product being used for something it was never intended to do"

Not sure what this means, but the electrostatic powder coated bullets work the best, higher velocity and better accuracy from the testing I have seen. PC is intended to coat metal.