Originally Posted by c3d4b2
I can't verify on the high end triggers in the newer Colts, my older HBAR is preban and machined for the illegal stuff.
For your information, unless made specifically for full auto, all AR's are machined to prevent easy use of illegal stuff....it's the law. It's not just Colt.
This is true, however Colt had gone to extra steps. Please see the pictures belowFor your information, unless made specifically for full auto, all AR's are machined to prevent easy use of illegal stuff....it's the law. It's not just Colt.
Colt
Comparison
Yes they did go to extra steps. The point is moot in that it's against the law to convert, at least without proper paper work and permission, and why do that when you can buy the legal real McCoy.
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that it is questionable if ALL the high end triggers would fit. It's not the fitting necessarily, but getting the trigger past that block down to where it needs to go. The ones that are, what I call, enbloc triggers...you know the type you just drop in and pin....not like say a National Match two stage RRA's one.
not quite true....
the carrier and trigger are not full auto design... the recievers are,and all but colt could accept full auto parts.(ok technically the recvr are not marked for full or burst)
some smiths charge extra to work on a colt lower because of the trigger block.
my question is why buy from a single manufacture that makes his part less like everyone else ? why spend extra money for a colt and then not have it completely compatable with EVERYONE ELSE....
we must mention at this point that krappy kolt also has odd size trigger pin holes and an odd sized fron pivot pin.
so tell me again, why i should spend more money on a colt when it does not march the rest of the industry ??
(ohh and they dont make the part. they subcontract it out like nearly everyone else in the industry)
mike in co
Last edited by mike in co; 06-19-2010 at 03:38 PM.
only accurate rifles are interesting
...not quite so Mike. All the current lowers are machined to not fit auto parts. You need to take a depth gauge and measure the distance on from the top of the lower to the depth of the milling. You will find that the bottom floor in the spot where auto parts would fit are taller, or not as deep. In other words you have to mill deeper.....and wider.
The uppers, to my knowlede (maybe not Colt) still have the recess cut out where the auto sear would be, but I think it is a Ghost that has to be widened.
I have 7 AR-15s and I love every one of them.
Truth be told most of your big brand companies buy from other manufacturers and assemble them.
DPMS and Bushmaster buy barrels from ER Shaw and Wilson Arms Co. depending on what barrel length, twist, etc ... Wilson Arms Co. manufactures all of Bushmaster's 24" barrels & all of their stainless barrels PERIOD.
To be quite honest with you ... I believe building is the ONLY way to go considering you can learn from the process, and be able to replace parts as needed without sending it back to the factory for replacement. Plus, you save upwards of $200 by building yourself and more on high end models.
Colt is just a brand name. My K.I.S.S. AR15s will shoot as well as any Colt. In comparison ... it's like comparing a Toyota to a Lexus ... they're the same car with different bells and whistles.
If you are dead set on buying a Brand and money isn't an object ... I'd steer away from the AR line altogether. From where I stand I am seeing a lot more people buying the Magpul Masada civilian clone ,better known as, the Bushmaster ACR. You can interchange calibers by swapping barrels and bolt carriers, and you aren't stuck with the same stock configuration. Your basic AR15 platform is still there.
Check out how easy it is .... who WOULDN'T want one?
http://splodetv.com/video/more-magpul-masada
Last edited by riverwalker76; 06-19-2010 at 05:24 PM.
any one have a date when this happened ?
only accurate rifles are interesting
It was in the '70s or early '80s I believe, a long time ago at any rate. Otherwise any AR that you could just drop the FA parts into would be "readily convertable" and thus a machine gun by BATF regs. Came about because of the "drop in" FA sears being sold through Shotgun News.
Larry Gibson
Here is a picture that shows the differences between the AR15 and M16
...................... Left - AR15 .......................... Right - M16 ..................
I can tell you when Colt did it. I have a Colt HBAR made in the mid 80's and it is not constructed to prevent the use of full auto parts. Here's when and how:
It should be noted that during the 1990 year production, Colt
incorporated a number of change to the Sporter's lower
receiver. First, it is possible to find receivers with their
original AR-15 and Colt's Firearms Div. markings or
the newer Sporter and C.M.C. markings. Second, the
constuction of the lower receiver was change to one which
followed that of the M-16A2 more closely. This can be seen
in the beefing up of the rear of the receiver and the boss
around the magazine release. At some point the M-16 type,
front lower receiver, push pin replaced the screw type, used
on the early AR's. And finally, by the end of 1990, Colt, had
placed a pinned in block into the lower receiver to prevent
the use of auto sears. As usually it seems that Colt added
these changes as old parts were used up. These changes don't
seem to occur at the same time in each model.
Because of this, one can find many variations in the 1990
year production.
As for other manufacturers you can be guaranteed it wasn't before that because
Colt was the first to cave in.
Now from nearly the very beginning there were of course changes to make the
AR15 semi automatic and I think most of us know what those are.
Mike,
on the left hand rifle notice that shelf just right behind the selector. That height/depth, whatever you wish to call it, was in the change in addition to the walls being thicker.
List of AR15 lower manufacturers:
Lewis Machine & Tool
- LMT
- Lauer
- DS Arms
- PWA
- Eagle
- Armalite
- Knights Armament
- Barrett
Continental Machine Tool
- Stag
- Rock River Arms
- High Standard
- Noveske
- Century (New)
- Global Tactical
- CLE
- S&W
- MGI
- Wilson Tactical
- Grenadier Precision
- Colt
LAR Manufacturing
- LAR
- Bushmaster
- Ameetec
- DPMS
- CMMG
- Double Star
- Fulton Armory
- Spike's Tactical
JVP
- Double Star
- LRB
- Charles Daly
Mega Machine Shop
- Mega
- GSE
- Dalphon
- POF
- Alexander Arms
Olympic
- Olympic
- SGW
- Tromix
- Palmetto
- Dalphon
- Frankford
- Century (Old)
Sun Devil
- Sun Devil forged billet receivers
Superior
- Superior Arms
- Lauer (New)
Aero Precision
- Aero Precision
Any thoughts on the 458 Socom? Would a 458 upper really fit almost any lower?
A lot more expensive? Etc., etc...
socom will fit on any ar15 lower. Personaly if i was to buy another big bore ar it would be the 450bushmaster. I allready have a beo to shoot heavys and my buddys bushmaster is fun to shoot with 250 grain hornady xtps. Real light recoil and still has the power to take about any animal. It would also allow for the use of the ton of 45 colt bullets i have casted. The 458 is capable of shooting 400 plus grain cast and jacketed and puts it close to the beo in power. Finding bullets under 300 grain can be tough though. Any of the three loaded properly is capable of taking any game animal in the US though. Just something about the thump the 50 beo puts on things though. My wife used one to shoot a 1600lb cow water buffalo last year and it did well. Surprising too is how well the reineer hps hold together and expand. I thought they were pretty much junk bullets when I first started using them but somehow they got the alloy right in them and they do just as well as any soft point bullet weve penetration tested and the flat nose version will give a cast bullet in that weight range a run for its money.
thanks for the replies.
i have no need nor desire for a full auto and have never paid much attention to that part of the rifle.
i knew colt had sold us out in 89 to try and save thier m16 government sales, but had not heard of the generic changes to the lowers.
i shoot a lot of single shot ars...more about accuracy than blasting. i do shoot three gun and just picked up pcs for an 7.62x39 upper to go on a composite lower.
mike in co
only accurate rifles are interesting
Don't forget ... Xtreme Machining. They produce some really nice Aluminum milled receivers for a great price.
The thing with the lower AR receivers is ... since the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 expired machine shops across the country popped up and started milling receivers.
I would go as far to bet that 90% of lower receivers are ALL milled from the same stock. One company probably makes the billets and everyone buys the billets to machine lowers out of. The good thing about this ..... you can find lower receivers a dime a dozen. I can get a stripped lower for around $60 locally because the market is flooded with them.
Last edited by riverwalker76; 06-20-2010 at 09:52 AM.
My list is not complete on lower receivers. One company, to my knowledge doesn't make the "billets" for everyone that machined out lower receivers. One reason I say this is because there are basically two types of lower receivers. One is forged and the other is cast. We can throw in a third type and that is a steel one.
Mike,
I regret never having bought one (or more) of the "drop in auto sears" when they were legal and available at a very low price. The reason was pointed out to me by my good friend. I was thinking about buying a full auto M16. He told me that if I bought the real McCoy and I worn it out (speaking about the lower which is serial numbered and thus the registered part) that I would have purchase another M16 going through the whole process again. With the drop in auto sear, the only part that is registered is the auto sear. Wear the rifle out that the auto sear is in and you merely place it in another rifle. The auto sears are serial numbers.
There are still a few auto sears around but there costs is about the same as a complete M16.
Would you know who is making a steel lower? DPMS use to have one, however they are not currently making them and I waited to long before deciding to get one.
Currently I'm not aware of who makes a steel lower steel receiver but I do know who makes a ceramic metal matrix lower. Go here:
http://www.ar15plus.com/noc/shop/pro...&ProductID=128
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