AR15s......... Pros and Cons

[Moonie]

mike in co, obviously you and I have different priorities, I prefer value over bragging rights. Nikon makes a great scope, the 4-12 40mm with BDC reticle will fit perfectly with the rifle I'm building. Have you actually read about the scope I posted? I've had lots of different scopes in the last 25 years including several that cost close to $1K. Me? I'd rather put the extra $300 into reloading equipment and supplies for the rifle, as long as the scope was good enough.

Thanks for the advice however.

[mike in co]

i do not know what the recoil will be like on your 6.8, but be fore warned that ar's "recoil" in both directions......initial recoil and carrier group slaming forward.
my ar10 just killed a redfield( oem denver) target scope. great scope but was not designed for double recoil. on 223's its not a big issue, but as you move up in bullet weight/case size, it does matter.
so spend what you want...i( have 40 dollar 2-7 ncstar's on milsurplus rifles), but i do suggest you look for ar platform scopes or higher end scopes.

most scope makers make several levels of quality/cost product lines. in nikon, its monarch, buckmaster and then prostaff...thier lowest line.

it does not mean its not a good scope and that it will not work, its just if you put money into a great gun why not a great scope instead of a good scope..??
just me...



mike in co

[BD]

I've found that there are quite a few scopes in the $300 range that will work for most general hunting. I have a leupy Ulitmate Slam muzzle loader scope on my .450 Bushmaster. I think it was $259. The BDC reticule is right on using the 250 grain FTX @ 2,200 fps and it's held up to it's first 700 rounds with no issues. 300 yards is the practical limit of the cartridge so the 3x9 optics work just fine.

IMHO when scoping an AR "thumper", the warranty is an important consideration.

It's when you get into longer range shooting that the cost of usable glass goes high. Trying to find a FFP mil/mil scope over 10X with quality glass under $1,000 is certainly a challenge.

BD

[Down South]

but i do suggest you look for ar platform scopes or higher end scopes.

The Nikon M-223 Rifle Scope 3-12x 42mm Side Focus BDC 600 Reticle is specifically designed for the AR-15.
This isn’t actually what I would classify as a “Cheap” Scope. It does carry a lifetime warranty even if you are not the original owner.
I too have several expensive scopes. I have five Leopold’s with several of them being over 1K. I do also have another Nikon 4-12X, I think that's the correct magnification, with the AO. It held up well on several belted magnums that I have. I retired it down to my .17 HMR for squirrel hunting. It still will handle the recoil of the mags though. I can't speak of the double recoil that you mentioned for the older Nikon though.
I’m thinking the Nikon M-223 will work well with the 16” barreled carbine W/the .55 gr bullet at 3240 fps. It shouldn’t be hard to either match or come close to that velocity hand loading with the 55 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip bullet.

Here is an interesting link. Of course it is a Nikon Ad but it is still somewhat impressive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IZUfHYyZLc

[mike in co]

yes i did not mention the 223 specific ar scopes because he is building a 6.8......
but yes there are some good things on the market for 223 ar's

mike in co

[Moonie]

Recoil of the 6.8 is much closer to the .223/5.56 then the .308/7.62. Most report no loss of on target sight picture.

[dk17hmr]

I have a Bushnell 5-15x40 on my 6.8. On 15 power I can hold on target through recoil at 50 yards..........not much recoil there.

I am a fan of Mueller scopes, they are good quality budget scopes. I just bought a 4.5-14x40 30mm with target turrets and sunshade for about $145 to my door, I plan on putting it on my 22-250 AI once I get it set up.

I have Mueller scopes on several rifles and had a 4-16x on my 6.8 before I got the Bushnell with no issue of zero shifting, even when cranking the turrets around to hit the 500 yard and 650 yard gongs.

I also have a Millett DMS-1 on my 300 whisper, which is a great "tactical" scope 1-4x 30mm tube.

Do yourself a favor when you get a scope get a one peice scope mount, I have an Armalite 1" mount and a Burris P.E.R.P 30mm mount. Both are great, the Burris is better looking though.

[GT27]

I wouldn't trust my life with any AR platform in existence IMHO,give me a CheyTac, or Rem 700, in .308 or .338 Lapua, and 500-1000 yards distance any day!Yes I do own a AR also,fun range gun,but to me that's all it is... GT27

[shdwlkr]

I am real late in finding this thread but

Those M-16's back in the day (60-70's) were a real pain period I used to have to care for 70 of them.
As to the amount of ammo you can carry as compared to the M 14, remember back then it was many times spray and pray, you burn up a lot of ammo that way.

The pill you put out the barrel was only 55 grains and through a 1 in 12 twist barrel at that, cleaning was not recommended at first then some idiot realized that this was needed. Don't let a few drops of water get in the barrel and then fire nasty things happened and yes we destroyed a few 16's showing individuals the down side to trying this.

We even had a few Ak's to have fun with and see what they could do simply amazing firing corroded ammo with water in the barrel and it still worked.

I just recently, actually last winter bought a black rifle again. I got a good deal on a used one and had to do some cleaning and such to get it work but it does what I want. I am not a into a real accurate AR platform shooter just enjoying shooting targets and remembering some fun from the past. This one is A2, Hbar, chrome lined barrel, preban 5.56mm and is what I wanted. I am happy with it now that I have the bugs worked out. Who ever had it before me didn't realize how to clean it or had a heck of a lot of ammo to get rid of before they let go of the rifle.

If I wanted a long range military rifle it would be the M 14 or Garand I used both and enjoyed both and one nice thing is you hit something with one of these rounds they stay down not always true with that 55 grain pill. I don't think of the AR's as anything but a 200-250 yard tool.

Now I also have a 22 LR in AR platform and just got my son one in M4 platform what fun to shoot and it doesn't break the bank if we shoot several hundred rounds.

My first two are both A2 platform as I like it best but that little M4 is winning me over real fast.

As to manufacturer I think it boils down to who you like and how much you want to spend. I have seen them all over the price range.

If I were thinking of a SHTF firearm I like the ideal of 50bmg for that purpose and since I can't afford one I guess I don't expect to see a SHTF environment. Besides if this really happens food, water, shelter will most likely be more important than having that rifle and just how are you going to carry all that ammo you will need with you?

Ever watch that show doomsday preppers I think it is called there is no way most of the stuff those folks have that they will ever get out of their neighborhoods with it and get to that remote place of theirs before all heck breaks loose.

Do I think things are going to change in America? If you have been watching they already are and not for the good of the people either. Freedom is just signature away from being non existent in all phases of our lives not just the ones we have let them take away already. The country I grew up in and served for doesn't exist anymore and may never exist again in my life time.

My most interesting question is will there be an election this fall and if so will it anything for the average American in a positive way?

Sorry for wandering off topic

[paul h]

I've had a couple of AR's, first was a armalite M4, never a bobble or malfunction, I just didn't care for the muzzleblast of the short barrel and the chrome barrel gave up a bit of accuracy.. Next was a Rock River Predator Persuit. Again perfect function, 20" tube toned the blast right down and accuracy was as good as my Rem 700 varmint 223. Trouble is I found the gun nose heavy.

I have a stripped AR lower, so the next AR is going to be a custom upper from WOA with their 18 1/2" SDM barrel with a hogue ff tube, and I'm still debating the configuration of the lower, but likely hogue grip, Magpul ACS stock and a 2 stage trigger.

[connecticut-yankee]

Does anyone have knowledge of Windham Weaponry?? I know the owner used to own Bushmaster.

Thanks

[340six]

I am real late in finding this thread but

Those M-16's back in the day (60-70's) were a real pain period I used to have to care for 70 of them.
As to the amount of ammo you can carry as compared to the M 14, remember back then it was many times spray and pray, you burn up a lot of ammo that way.

The pill you put out the barrel was only 55 grains and through a 1 in 12 twist barrel at that, cleaning was not recommended at first then some idiot realized that this was needed. Don't let a few drops of water get in the barrel and then fire nasty things happened and yes we destroyed a few 16's showing individuals the down side to trying this.

We even had a few Ak's to have fun with and see what they could do simply amazing firing corroded ammo with water in the barrel and it still worked.

I just recently, actually last winter bought a black rifle again. I got a good deal on a used one and had to do some cleaning and such to get it work but it does what I want. I am not a into a real accurate AR platform shooter just enjoying shooting targets and remembering some fun from the past. This one is A2, Hbar, chrome lined barrel, preban 5.56mm and is what I wanted. I am happy with it now that I have the bugs worked out. Who ever had it before me didn't realize how to clean it or had a heck of a lot of ammo to get rid of before they let go of the rifle.

If I wanted a long range military rifle it would be the M 14 or Garand I used both and enjoyed both and one nice thing is you hit something with one of these rounds they stay down not always true with that 55 grain pill. I don't think of the AR's as anything but a 200-250 yard tool.

Now I also have a 22 LR in AR platform and just got my son one in M4 platform what fun to shoot and it doesn't break the bank if we shoot several hundred rounds.

My first two are both A2 platform as I like it best but that little M4 is winning me over real fast.

As to manufacturer I think it boils down to who you like and how much you want to spend. I have seen them all over the price range.

If I were thinking of a SHTF firearm I like the ideal of 50bmg for that purpose and since I can't afford one I guess I don't expect to see a SHTF environment. Besides if this really happens food, water, shelter will most likely be more important than having that rifle and just how are you going to carry all that ammo you will need with you?

Ever watch that show doomsday preppers I think it is called there is no way most of the stuff those folks have that they will ever get out of their neighborhoods with it and get to that remote place of theirs before all heck breaks loose.

Do I think things are going to change in America? If you have been watching they already are and not for the good of the people either. Freedom is just signature away from being non existent in all phases of our lives not just the ones we have let them take away already. The country I grew up in and served for doesn't exist anymore and may never exist again in my life time.

My most interesting question is will there be an election this fall and if so will it anything for the average American in a positive way?

Sorry for wandering off topic

My Colt SP1 is 1-12" and may just shoot the 55's good but is a classic and uses an old scope i had since i got the rifle back when. The old Colt scope that goes in the handle hole.
The Match grade 20" H bar likes 68-70's and is better than i shoot and eats the 55's up
I wonder if the chrome barrel would hold it back if i was a serious shooter
Few test i tried were with just 55-70 grain SP's
The 6.8 is a thought

[btroj]

A properly set up AR can shoot quite well to 600 yards, and even beyond.
The Army, Marines, and many civilians do very well at Perry each year wi the black rifle.
When I decided to shoot Highpower I didn't even consider anything but an AR. Just so easy to Get shooting well.
My distinguished badge tells me all I need to know about what an AR can do out to 600.