Glocks & Lead, Constructive Suggestions PLEASE!

[tech413]

Hey all, I know this is like beating a dead horse, but I know it has been done with success by some.

I have 2 Glcok 17's that I want to try to shoot lead from and I was looking for some input. I know some have done it without a problem and I want to know what you guys use. Everyone else says it doesn't work and it's a bad idea, but how many have actually attempted it?

The mold I am using is the Lee 356-125-2R.

I have slugged both barrels, one measures .355" and the other .3555" so I was thinking a .356" die for my star. Any suggestions on sizing?

As for hardness, I have a tester but haven't used it much yet. I was thinking WW would work, but I don't have much experience with playing with hardness, what do you guys think?

Lastly, powder, I have read that it is best to use a slow burning powder to shoot lead from Glocks. For those of you that do it, what powders do you use. I don't plan on pushing these bullets too fast, I'm mostly just plinking anyhow.

I want to try this and I am just looking for helpfull and constructive information. I know some will post and says it won't work or it's a bad idea, but I figure no harm in trying. If I can't do it without leading, I will buy barrels, but I know it can be and has been done. Any help you guys can give me would be great.

Sorry about the long post and THanks in advance,
Adam

[LowPE]

I have shot many thousands of rounds out of a glock 26 and glock 30. All my cast, bhn around 12, lubed with both lee alox and a variety of stick lubricants. No problems.

My 9mm are sized to 356. My 45s are just lee alox and sized only by the lee fcd.

I use primarily unique or blue dot.

[ErikT]

Good to know. I am also looking to shoot cast through my Glock .45, and was wondering how to get good results. There seem to be a lot of "experts" who haven't tried it themselves, but know someone who knew someone whose roomate's brother's ex-girlfriend's study partner blew his Glock apart trying cast boolits. It's nice to hear results from someone who actually knows what they're talking about!

Erik.

[chris in va]

If it's anything like my Kahr, you'll want to scrub out that barrel every 100 rounds or so. Mine gets leaded like crazy.

[anachronism]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=33855

[82nd airborne]

i have two glocks, 40 and 45 and i only put j words in them when i cc. the 40 has had countles rounds thru it and ive never had a problem. there is no common sense argument as to why they woulndt work. theyll shoot underwater for petes sake!

[AnthonyB]

Chris in VA:
You are doing it wrong. Where are you in VA? If you are in Northern VA, drop me a PM.
Tony

[miestro_jerry]

I have a variety of Glocks, the ammo I carry is the ammo I practice with, so all of them shoot Jacketed bullets. I do the same with my J frame and a couple other pistols. Then I have many others I shoot cast bullets in them.

Recently there has been some reports of G21 coming apart with certain European ammo that PDs have been using for practice ammo. The FBI is investigating this situation, so we may never hear what they find out. This happened with the Marshall County, W.V. Sheriff's department, one sergeant has a sore hand.

I do as I have been told and never had a problem. The H.K. P7s have a similar barrel geometry, so the same warning is given with them.

This discussion has been going on for at least 8 years on various forums that I can remember.

Jerry

[deerslayer]

Good to know. I am also looking to shoot cast through my Glock .45, and was wondering how to get good results. There seem to be a lot of "experts" who haven't tried it themselves, but know someone who knew someone whose roomate's brother's ex-girlfriend's study partner blew his Glock apart trying cast boolits. It's nice to hear results from someone who actually knows what they're talking about!

Erik.

I have shot thousands through my glock 21 45 ACP it is laying beside me right now with cast in it. I size to .452 and use whatever lead I can get my hands on mostly about 60% ww and 40% pure mix. But I used straight WW and no problems. I have never had a leading issue with it at all.

Currently I am shooting a lee 200 grn rnfp at 1.156 OAL. I typically use Unique 5.8 grns or red dot 3.8 grns with that boolit. I have also used 200 grn swc and the BD45's that a friend had also. Never any leading.

I actually shot 1000 through it at one time without cleaning to see if it would lead and it did not. I typically clean after each shooting session and that is it. They even group better than factory ammo at least for me. There will be those that say it can't be done but there were those that said you can't put a man on the moon.

If I can help PM me. As for other calibers I can not comment but I know the .45 will work. Thanks Nate

[HammerMTB]

You're on the right track.
I have shot many rounds of cast boolits thru my Glocks. I have a 20 and a 29, and shoot both 10MM brass and at times .40Short & Weak. It all runs thru there like nobody's biz-niss
You need to get the right dia. boolit for your bbl. You're following that. You may find the Lee mold will drop boolits you don't even need to size. That saves a step.
I use .001" over boolits, and LLA. LLA saves me a lot of time over using my 450 Lyman lube-sizer.
I have found that plain old ACWW are plenty hard enough. If I shoot a 300 round match, I will end up with a very small bit of lead in the bbl, that comes out without too much trouble. If I think of it before I go home, I will shoot 2-3 j-word boolits thru the gun and strip the lead right out.
You are well on your way to cheap, plentiful ammo!


This thread has info you may want to further investigate. If you think you can readily have ZERO leading all the time, you should read this thread: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=86672
While I admit you can certainly attain that at least some of the time, you will have to decide whether it is worth your time and trouble or not. Slight leading that does not affect accuracy is acceptable to me, and the thread above shows that is common to many.

[Just Call Me...G]

Hi Adam,

It's always a good idea to see how others have faired before you entertain any endeavor.
Yes, this whole Glock/cast boolit conundrum has been around for A LONG time and everyone has their opinion.

Here is my experience and definitely YMMV...
About 15 years ago I decided to buy my first Glock ever and I decided on the GLK 20...I wanted a handgun that I could EDC and use as a travel companion whilst off in the boonies of wild Nevada. I really like the 10mm and had a ready access of fairly inexpensive practice and defensive ammo (I worked in the firearms industry, wholesale sales, and bought cases at cost).

My break-in routine is the same for all of my handguns, shoot 500 total in one sitting and cleaning in between every 100th round. When I broke in the GLK 20, the only practice ammo that was available to me was Federal American Eagle (I believe they were 180 gr. lead TC). During the cleaning portion I did notice some leading and I did have "J" word bullets, I started running a mag after I shot the 90th round or so. Now I have a friend who says that running "J" bullets after shooting boolits is malarkey, we are entitled to our opinions...they seem to have reduced my bit of leading that I experienced during break-in.

My Glock did not blow up and it was an exercise in boredom how efficiently it ran.

I still have that same handgun and carry it with me a lot, I cast the Lee 175gr. TC, lube it with my proprietary lube, shoot it regularly at ~ 1200fps...primarily using Universal, but I also like AA 5 and Bullseye. It has never once faltered.

That being said, it has had some modifications...
The first, and I ALWAYS recommend this to Glock shooters, is getting rid of that piece of **** guide rod, sights replaced with Trijicons and lastly about 10 years ago I got a smoking deal on a KKM barrel. I did not install the KKM because of the polygonal rifling issue...my issue is that I am a handloader and I do not care for an unsupported chamber. I REALLY cannot remember the last time that I ACTUALLY purchased 10mm ammo and from the looks of it I am very glad that I started reloading those 15 years ago.

Since my experience with the GLK 20 was so good over the years I have also acquired a GLK 21 and a GLK 17...and I purchased a .40 SW barrel for my GLK 20. I pretty much have all the calibers I shoot in the Glock platforms covered (and throw in the Advantage Arms GLK20/21 conversion kit to boot!)

I cast for all of my Glocks, I like the Lee TC molds for 9mm(356-120-TC), .40/10mm(401-175-TC) and .45(452-230-TC). I size to .356, .401 and .452...respectively.
As stated above I like Universal, AA 5 and Bullseye...I don't care for Blue-Dot as shooting in Nevada wind I have found that sometimes I'll get powder residue back at me. I have used Unique as well, with good results.
I use straight WWs and water-quench...lube, size, load and go shoot.

I started all of my Glocks out with their factory barrels and eventually switched over to KKMs.
I have all of the factory barrels in the tupperware and would not hesitate for a moment to throw them back in the guns and shoot anything through them.

My $0.02

Keep The High Ground,


G

[tech413]

Thanks for all the great info guys, I will be trying this soon, I'll update this thread when I do.

[mooman76]

I did it in my Glock 22. The 40 cal is probubly the worst because of the pressure. I stuck to moderate-midrange loads and use bullets of proper size. Watch for leading often at least until you know you're on track and keep your loads from top end and you should be ok. I usually shot as dropped bullets, both water dropped and air cooled.

[GeneT]

If you're shooting a .40 Glock, with cast or jacketed, you can buy yourself a whole lot of peace of mind (and make your resizing easier) by replacing the Glock barrel with a conventionally-rifled, full chamber support barrel. I bought a Lone Wolf - drops right in, no issues. I shoot cast through my G21 (factory barrel) with no problems, but I don't shoot much through it, so it's not a great data point. No abnormal fouling yet.

GsT

[cptinjeff]

I've shot plenty of cast thru my G21. However, a couple of years ago I started shooting some USPSA with it and "had" to buy a lone wolf bbl as every time I would go to shoot and someone would see my cast ammo it would be a discussion. Now they see my ammo AND after market bbl and now we can talk about how pityfull my performance was and not how I'm endangering everyone within the county shooting cast in my Glock. I've bowed to PC

[Alex Hamilton]

If it's anything like my Kahr, you'll want to scrub out that barrel every 100 rounds or so. Mine gets leaded like crazy.

The primary cause of leading is gas cutting! High pressure gas rips molecules of lead off the boolit sides and deposits them in the bore in front of the boolit, where they get ironed in by the passing projectile.

Most common cause is that the boolit is too small for the bore and it allows high pressure gas to blow past it. But it can also be caused by the torque imparted by the lands, where alloy wears at the leading edge of the lands and the gaps beging to appear at the trailing edges, where gas cutting occurs.

Leading is a kiss of death to accuracy and there is no such thing as "just a little leading"! The only good load is one that does not lead at all.

What kind of powder are you using and how much? What is the muzzle velocity of your loads? Have you slugget the barrel of your gun and what is the groove size? What do you use for boolit alloy? What size are your boolits?

Reply to these questions and I might be able to help you.

Regards,

Alex

[HammerMTB]

there is no such thing as "just a little leading"! The only good load is one that does not lead at all.

Regards,

Alex

I beg to differ, Alex.
While we may mince words all to pieces, there most certainly is such a thing as "just a little leading"
When after several hundred rounds I get just a few flecks of lead while cleaning, it is "just a little"
If "the only good load" is one that doesn't lead at all, then evidently there are a lot of poor loaders here who get mild or modest leading after extended shooting sessions.

[truckmsl]

I've shot many thousands of my cast boolits through my glock 35 stock barrel in .40 without any problems whatsoever.

[bohokii]

i shoot lead in my glock 21 and imi baby eagle .45

i heard its not good to do that in polygonal rifling so i bought replacement barrels for both and have been just fine so far

i figure the cost of a replacement barrel was cheaper than hearing i told you so by everybody

not that a replacement barrel wont blow

[Alex Hamilton]

I beg to differ, Alex.
While we may mince words all to pieces, there most certainly is such a thing as "just a little leading"
When after several hundred rounds I get just a few flecks of lead while cleaning, it is "just a little"
If "the only good load" is one that doesn't lead at all, then evidently there are a lot of poor loaders here who get mild or modest leading after extended shooting sessions.

Well, if you are happy with the accuracy and the leading does not accumulate, I'd leave it at that. I have a 357Mag. Winchester underlever, which I shoot regularly in competitions and I have not cleaned the barrel since I bought it in 1996. We are not allowed to own handguns in UK, so I now cast only for rifles. The velocities are close to 2000ft/sec and I have two loads that reach 2200ft/sec. I clean barrels only after I have shot jacketed bullets, which is not often. The longest I have not cleaned the barrel of my Enfield No.4 in 303Brit. is 2 years and when I did clean it there was no leading.

You are quite right in that there are many reloaders out there, probably the majority, that have problems with leading for various reasons, mostly because the bullets are not large enough to obturate effectively or because of overloading.